1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

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SLUNK
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1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by SLUNK »

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum but have had a couple of polos in the past and my partner has one too so you could say I'm a big fan.

I'm currently looking at getting my third polo but it has a a problem - I'll explain...

It's an 09 plate 1.4TDI bluemotion - one of the last 9N's I guess? At the moment it belongs to a colleague who had it serviced at around 90k and shortly after it lost oil pressure but the fool continued to drive it to a garage and guess what, engine starts knocking...

To cut a long story short, he now wants to sell it for spares/repairs and I'm hoping I can get it and swap a used but working engine into it. Only thing is, I can't seem to find out what if anything was special about the bluemotion engine (the 09 1.4TDI one particularly). A search of the net says it will be an BMS engine code, is this correct? Are any of the ancillaries and other bits interchangeable with any other more common engines (AMFs etc) ie starter motor, alternator, turbo, injectors, ecu, diesel pump? I'm thinking that maybe even everything is the same as an AMF except for the turbo and ecu....

Anyway, if anyone could help me with some information on this engine that'd be great.

Sam
K.I.T.T.
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by K.I.T.T. »

Three of the 1.4 TDI engines are in essence (the 75PS AMF found in the 6n and 9n, the 70PS and 80PS found in the 9n3) the same, despite the different engine codes. Ie internals, turbo and ECU. The only difference is the ECU map.

The Bluemotion differs slightly in having a variable geometry turbo opposed to the stone age wastegate turbos in the other three variants. The block / head (there were rumours that it had a slightly different cam, but for practical purposes, won't make a difference) and everything inside (injectors etc) is the same among all 1.4 TDIs.The Bluemotion has a longer gearbox, but it's still an 02j variant like its stablemates. They're electrically compatible as well, as all variants run the EDC15P ECU.

Long story short, find a used engine with injectors (minus the turbo) and swap all ancillaries over and you're good to go. Be sure to keep the stock Bluemotion turbo and the stock Bluemotion valve block (black box on top of the OSF top mount) as this is specific to a VNT turbo.

Ash
SLUNK
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by SLUNK »

Thanks Ash, very useful info there.

One question - why do you say find a used engine with injectors? Aren't the injectors matched to the ecu, and therefore if I'm using the existing bluemotion ECU I'll need to swap the existing injectors to the new engine, along with the turbo (providing its OK).

Or am I missing something? Are the injectors somehow matched to the head/block?

I had a look at the car this eve and it is really tidy, couldn't find the stamp on the block but there were a few stickers around the engine bay with the code BMS.
K.I.T.T.
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by K.I.T.T. »

PD injectors are a pain in the posterior to swap if you don't have specialised tools.

Injectors are the same on all 1.4 TDIs, bar the rare 90PS ATL engine that was available in the Audi A2. Don't have the part number to hand, but they're all 465cc injectors, same as those found in the 1.9 PD115.

I'd try and find an engine without ancillaries, but one that's not had the valve cover off and cannibalised for injectors / cam etc. Nothing needs matching to the ECU, literally plug and play (providing the original turbo is serviceable).

Ash
SLUNK
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by SLUNK »

OK cheers ash, I'm going to try and get an AMF then as these seem to be quite common and reasonably priced.

2nd engines are always a gamble, some sellers are claiming very low miles on relatively old engines, but with no evidence of course!

Anyone know of any reputable engineering shops that do reconditioned bare AMF's for reasonable money?
K.I.T.T.
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by K.I.T.T. »

Would it be worth assessing the possibility of stripping the original engine apart and rebuilding it instead? Otherwise, I'd try and find a 1.4 TDI engined car (Polo / Fabia / Ibiza / A2) which has been written off from a rear end shunt or something similar, being broken for spares. Ideally one with full service history. It's not about the miles, it's how it's been maintained. Well looked after, these engines will see over 200k miles easy.

Ash
SLUNK
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by SLUNK »

I got some quotes for a rebuild and it was crazy money, around 1.5k.

Have been trying to find a decent AMF engine from an accident damaged car as ash suggested.

However, I came across a thread last night somewhere else where the OP was asking if he could upgrade his AMF engine to a VNT turbo from the newer engines, such as the BMS. Responses were saying that the VNT turbo has a different manifold, which didn't fit the AMF head?

This obviously contradicts what other people have said - that all the BMS ancillaries will fit the BMS?
SLUNK
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by SLUNK »

Ignore my last message, I think they were talking about putting one of the larger vnt turbos off a 4cyl golf on the 3cyl polo, hence the manifold issue.

Next question - is the VNT element of the turbo (or indeed a regualar wastegate and actuator) on these engines at all electronic or are they all mechanical/vacuum operated?

The reason I ask is because the VNT turbo on this car is ruined (foreign object damage to the compressor) and a cheap AMF with all the ancillaries inc turbo has come up for sale locally. I was wondering if I can downgrade to a conventional turbo with external wastegate or if that will cause problems with the ECU.
K.I.T.T.
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by K.I.T.T. »

You could 'downgrade' to a wastegate, but it gets a bit more complicated. You'll need that 'black box' that sits above the OSF strut from an AMF and will also need to reflash the ECU with an AMF file. I'd try and find a used VNT turbo for a 1.4 TDI and bolt that onto the AMF (direct fit), so it's plug and play.

This'd work: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-SKODA-FABI ... 35e6fe3e85

And all 1.4 TDI actuators are mechanical, WG and VNT.

Ash
ste_jona123
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by ste_jona123 »

hi
sorry to jump in on this post but how did you go on swapping the engine?
only asking because i have a BMS engine which has seized in a seat ibiza ecomotive and im looking for some advice as to the same as SLUNK
are there some engines which would fit and be less rare? (expensive) and if so could anyone tell me the codes (did the AMF fit ok?)
as the fault is certainly a seized solid bottom end but the engine ancillaries are all fine i could swap everything over but knowing my luck id get the wrong one
any advice on this would be greatly appreciated
keithcheetham
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by keithcheetham »

K.I.T.T. wrote:Three of the 1.4 TDI engines are in essence (the 75PS AMF found in the 6n and 9n, the 70PS and 80PS found in the 9n3) the same, despite the different engine codes. Ie internals, turbo and ECU. The only difference is the ECU map.
.

Ash
Not sure the maps are different having loaded 70, 75 and 80 maps in EDC15P where most of the main parameters look the same - was hoping to write 80hp parameters into my 70hp map to get the extra 10hp, but more importantly 114 to 143lb/ft of torque.
To the OP, think that this will be the oil pump drive chain snapped which I have seen in a lot of "spares or repairs" adds for Fabias with this later engines, my 56 plate Fabia 70hp BNM is knocking on the door of 173K miles and still going strong.
Freddie 1942
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by Freddie 1942 »

Sorry to but in but need help have problems with front disc break location
screw it's damaged will not undo tried centre punch
still not moving
any ideas please
Oap in trouble. Lol,

Freddie 1942
Robertdann11
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by Robertdann11 »

Did it work getting a different engine
Scoody
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by Scoody »

Might help someone out there. I just rebuilt my sons bluemotion BMS engine, we bought it with a snapped oil pump chain. The engine had stopped in a hurry so no lube problems but the gear was welded to the crank. I bought an AMF motor cheap stripped it and found the cranks differ non BMS engines have a sensor on the crank. My engine had a crank seal type pickup, like a 2 litre tdi, the engine blocks could be moded but its not easy. I fitted the early crank and used the BMS seal sensor unit on it, an easy swap but you need the TDI seal installation tool for the 2.0 tdi, dont try to fit the sensor by guesswork. Be warned the seal is expensive and the tool is 80 quid. I have heard the two types of pickup are not interchangable but i may be wrong. The only cock up so far is i didnt notice the AMF front crank seal housing has no hole bored for an oil level sensor. Otherwise the engine seems sweet.
Scoody
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Re: 1.4TDI Bluemotion engine differences

Post by Scoody »

Bit more info on the BMS swap, a late type pickup could be fitted to the AMF block but you would need to open up a window in between the webs on the block. The VNT turbo if seized
May only need a cartridge, i fitted a cheap one for £150 to the pd in my galaxy it lasted years. I cant tell you about the injectors as I used the bluemotion ones. Its not an economic job for a garage but not too bad at home. Worst part was trying to find a way to the exhaust clamp on the manifold ( remove the egr etc, remove heat shield screws and bend it a little and you can see the clamp bolt) and trying not to damage all the plugs and sensors on the exhaust.
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