Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by Dink »

wonder if the electrics can take the extra load of these (extra 1.5A)
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

For the reversing light? Have you cross checked the base dimensions with the P21W?

Extra current, I don't think that that should be a problem as we don't tend to stay in reverse for very long - a lot of the wiring used in modern cars has "thin insulation" and so it probably disguises what the actual cross section of the copper wire inside is - that was just a "get a warm feeling about this" comment!

Edit:- I'm thinking that these cars would probably need about 200W lamps to turn these "reversing warning indicators" into reversing lights?? Cibie bolted onto the rear hatch, very retro!
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by Dink »

yeah the p21w is the same as a ba15s also 1156 so it will fit the base

i was more worried about the transistors that probably switch the reverse lamp on
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

Hum, good point!
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

I've just checked which VW Group cars use that "securing element" and it seems that only VW do and it is being used on most/all new models launched since 2009 - so that kind of points to there being acceptance of that method of retaining the rear clusters on these cars, which in my mind makes it look like this could just be an issue with certain car plants over tightening these fixings, I'm still waiting to hear back from the OP as to if his car is a South Africa built one.

Edit:- I've just looked at a picture of these fixings, and I'm thinking that the original intention was that they are screwed down until the wider step on the shank of these screws bears down against the top of the body of the cluster, so when you tighten it down it becomes slightly tighter as the lower spring platform bears against the steel work of the car body, then the wider step on the shaft/shank meets the top of the cluster and the tightening effort increases very quickly, at that point it is correctly tightened. In reality, at least on my wife's August 2015 6C Polo, the area where that step should bear on does not exist so it is possible to keep on tightening, in theory if you have good access and very strong hands, until the spring becomes fully compressed - or the plastic screw or the threads in the cluster fail - nice one VW!
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by veteran »

Rum4Mo,

Success! I extended the slits in the felt trim and then was able to put a screwdriver into the slot. With not too much work, the screw then finally turned and I was soon able to extract it. As for the electrical connector, I had to probe very carefully with small screwdrivers to pull out the red piece, which was locking the connector in place. I was then able to make the disconnection. Getting the lens assembly/cluster off the back wasn't particularly easy, either. I kept wiggling it to try to withdraw it but, of course, it was being partly held by a sprung locator on its external side but out of sight. Once I carefully eased that out, the cluster came away.

There was then the matter of unclipping the bulb 'backboard', to get at the various bulbs. The four plastic clips on that assembly seemed like they'd easily break. However, with patience I succeeded. I've since physically measured and written down details of the four bulbs I found. This was the LH cluster, BTW, as seen while standing by the boot. Two of them were P21W's, one was a PY21W (orange envelope), and the one at middle-left was a wire-based wedge type (18W).

Tomorrow I'll have a go at the RH cluster, as there may be additional bulbs in that one. It'll in any event be an opportunity to free off that one's plastic screw.

I'd say that, in my case, had I or anyone else been caught on a dark, rainy night needing to change one of these bulbs it would have been absolutely impossible without having the tools to hand that I used. How on earth someone in those circumstances could release that red connector piece is quite beyond me; you need small but strong hands, 20-20 vision, a good torch, the right-sized little screwdriver, and huge dexterity. And then jiggling around the lens housing to try to withdraw it ..... ! Who'd have the patience to do that, even with a police officer breathing down your neck?! A piece of poor design, IMHO.

And just to answer some of your speculations, no my Polo wasn't made in South Africa, it was made in Germany and shipped as a special order to my VW dealer here. I know that to be so because I specifically asked the dealer from where the car was being shipped. When I decided to buy there was no stock of Match Edition left in England that met both my colour requirement and others. And unfortunately meanwhile Germany was taking no more custom orders, since the factory was instead gearing up with production of 2018 models. But my dealer managed to locate a RHD one in Germany that met my spec. I had to wait some 5 weeks for it.

It's 5-dr and, according to the logbook (V5c), officially it's a type 6R. I have to confess that, to me, Polo Mk nos. and 6 nos. don't seem to follow a logical progression.

Postscript: perhaps the sheer difficulty, as found, of accessing the tail lights suggests that maybe the best thing to do always is to buy good-quality replacement bulbs and not just the cheapest ones around that you can find? I mean, you surely wouldn't want to actually do this job on some roadside on a dark, awful night, would you, even with us knowing the procedure now? So, the longer the bulbs last, the less likely you'll ever need to do such a thing. Yeh, yeh, there is of course the small matter of knowing which ones are good quality and which aren't. And price isn't always necessarily the best guide. Anyway, food for thought.
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

I think that you might have trouble buying a spare 18W wedge, ie W18W, I found that my tail lights were 16W wedge, ie W16W which is becoming a popular bulb type in VW Group newer cars.

Strange that VW Germany have been building RHD 5 door Match trim Polos, very very strange, you can tell where a car has been built from its VIN plate, at slack times all UK bound new cars will come through Germany - typically being mustered at Emden and being shipped in from plants all over the world, then sorted and loaded into small transporter ships for delivery into UK etc. A factory order is only ever a car you have spec'd up and had built for you, shipping in from free stock in Emden is not factory special order by the way.

The plastic retaining clip, yes horrible to bend back, but they do make a very satisfying noise when you close it back up again.

I hope that you find the same bulbs in the other cluster with the exception that instead of a reversing light - type P21W, you will find a rear fog light - type H21W - ie a small halogen bulb.

Do you have LED headlights on that car, if so the only bulb in the front clusters will be another, this time wedge type WY21W - and the front fog light will be H8 35W, which costs a bit more.

I have tidied up my posting that has the bulb types in it to clarify any guessing I had!

Edit:- if you can check what the 11th letter (in from the left) is, I can tell you which VW plant that car was built in.
Last edited by RUM4MO on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by ciclo »

I love this topic. veteran, thank you very much for all your explanations and comments.
I think RUM4MO, because of his work experience, would be able to change those bulbs in the worst possible conditions, however, I agree with you, it would be a difficult/impossible task for most drivers.

I have read carefully what you write RUM4MO (as ever), thanks for your impressions and clarifications. There are very good solutions in screws and fixing elements that are used in the aeronautical industry, I think I know them quite well. :wink:
But, perhaps this securing element is an excellent solution for all the purposes for which it was designed (apart from to hold the rear optic group) :?: . I do not know its exact usefulness as a securing element.
(also my English is a problem: secure, secured, securing...xñclijñalsjh .... daddy, now I get angry and I do not breathe... :))

A bit of my experience:
When I did the change from 6R to 6C taillights I realized that when I tightened the nylon screw it was spinning with a bit more difficulty than in the 6R taillights (minimally appreciable). Perhaps the tolerances of the thread pitch in 6C taillights is a little smaller because plastic-parts manufacturing processes. But you know, it's a personal appreciation.

As for the 35W reversing light bulb I also think could be installed but I also think it is close to the tolerances allowed.
The wires used for the reversing light in the 6C are 0.5 mm2 thick, e.g. in Transporter T6 (with two 16W bulbs for reversing lights) are 0.75 mm2 thick.
For 6R = 1.0 mm2 thick ... 8)
I think the wires should work at 1/3 of the maximum permissible tolerance, but, as RUM4MO says, the operation of the reversing light is not permanent.
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by veteran »

What I actually read off the wedge bulb was:

Toshiba 921K, 12VW16W, E2-2I8, 12V 18W Japan

so make of that what you will. I myself had to look twice. I suspect that it's the same one to which you're referring. As long as the physical size is correct. A matter of a couple of watts difference shouldn't matter too much. Are you sure anyway that the current norm is 16W? On mine, it quite clearly says, on its own line on the glass, "12V 18W", so that's pretty definitive. Possibly, this could be one of those minor variations, or upratings, that VW has a habit of introducing.

BTW, I don't think I said that my car was a special order on the factory. After all, that was impossible at the time because the date had passed for doing that. No, instead it was an order on a new RHD Polo Match Edition, with features that met my requirements, that my dealer located in Germany.

What aspect of the VIN no. tells you where the vehicle was made?
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

Yes the translation from German to English sometimes throws up some curious words, like "securing element"!

This thread has opened up my eyes to what I should really have done as soon as I bought that car, from using the link to Etka, I've discovered that I'll find out that changing the LED head light cluster's turn indicator bulb could also be challenging! I hope that I'm wrong there, time will tell, at least I now know which spare bulbs I need to buy to update the bulb kit for that Polo and also for my Audi S4 - it looks like the turn indicator in the HID head light cluster of my 2011 Audi S4, is a unique Audi part - and I find that hard to believe, but it might be that way (£££).
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

veteran, look at the 11th letter in from the left hand side and report back what it is.

If you check what you have written down about that bulb, it also includes 12VW16W, ie 12V W16W = 12 volt supply wedge 16 watt. I did not remove that bulb, I was recording what is written on the rear of the back plate.

Edit:- I've discovered that it is possible to buy W18W bulbs, a box of 100 available from ebay!
Maybe you have opened up a rush for us to get some 18W bulbs into our cars, can only be a good thing to increase the light level from these tail lights?
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by ciclo »

This is a good and very easy way to release the taillights.

Image
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

I think with time, you might be able to just grab both sides and crush and pull, I seem to remember that is what I do with the late 2009 Ibiza that my daughter has - to check the condition of its orange turn indicator bulbs before every MOT as I just hate paying someone to replace a bulb!

Edit:- I had a bad experience with my wife's previous 9N Polo, it failed an MOT due to a rear orange indicator bulb "showing" a spot of white light - not allowed - the tester replaced the bulb during the test (don't ask how they could spot that under the coloured cluster "glass", the next year, just before MOT time I tried to remove that cluster, the retaining nut - plastic with a steel threaded ferrule insert, had rusted solid to the steel stud that was bonded into the rear cluster - game over, I just had to pull the cluster out, then discovered a sealing gasket was missing! Cleaned up the stud thread, glued it back into the cluster, made up a new gasket, cleaned up the plastic nut insert and applied some grease, sorted!
Last edited by RUM4MO on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by ciclo »

:)..

Yes, but the metal spring on the tab could damage the paint, in the care that the tail light will fall when releasing it.


Edit:
Yes, to avoid that the metal spring on the tab could damage the paint, in the care that the tail light will fall when releasing it.
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Re: Anyone accessed tail lights on 2014-17 Polo 1.2 TSI or similar?

Post by RUM4MO »

I think that the 9N Polo had two spring clips, double trouble!

Edit:- I think that if the retaining screw was a bit longer, you could unscrew the retaining screw, but not fully, tap or lightly hit the end of the retaining screw and that would disengage the spring clip, and then while supporting the cluster with one hand, complete removing the retaining screw with the other hand - that would work - if the cable to the cluster was a bit longer! I think that I sometimes use that method with the late 2009 Ibiza, its rear cluster is a lot bigger/longer so you end up opening up a gap at the side quickly and can force your finger nails in while grabbing pulling the cluster.
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