Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

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gtsportms
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Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by gtsportms » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:39 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6lA8Ux ... r_embedded


Found this on the German Polo 6R Facebook Group.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by ciclo » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:06 am

Image

For example:

Image
Splice the CAN lines where it says "if new mods in the future". :)

You need a BCM Max. :wink:

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by iichel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:01 am

You could also have a look at the beetle instruments. They come from the same PQ25 platform. But you have to check whether the adress of the extra instruments is available in your CAN gateway.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by ciclo » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:13 am

7E0937090B
Image
B9

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Address B9: Aux. Display (J285) Labels: None
Part No SW: 1K8 919 527 HW: 1K8 919 527
Component: ZUSATZANZEIGE H08 0003
Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 05
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_Auxi_Disp_Unit 001010
ROD: N/A
VCID: F5E1875F54346DB6375-80A0

No fault code found.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by ciclo » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:40 am

The Beetle's ones (5C5919527E) also work by powertrain CAN lines. :)

http://bikers.livedoor.biz/archives/2029867.html

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by Jay-Jay » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:05 pm

This is really interesting!
I'm just trying to imagine if it could hinder the visibility, considering that Polo's dashboard is taller than Scirocco's one.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by cheba » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:31 pm

This is a really cool mod. Last week I was thinking about installing a boost gauge in my WRC (left air vent) and I came to think about the Scirocco/Beetle gauge cluster (yes, I know it's not accurate as a real boost gauge). I actually did a quick search to see if someone has fitted the Scirocco cluster in a Polo, but couldn't find any.

I'm wondering why the owner is using the non-R gauge cluster with red needles. The R version with blue needles would be a better match for the blue needles in the WRC main cluster. Is the R version of the cluster that hard to find?

I'd love to have this mod myself, but I have the factory BCM in my WRC (I assume that's not a BCM Max) so I guess it wouldn't work without switching BCM and recoding everything. Plus I'm a bit hesitant about cutting up the dashboard...

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by ciclo » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:42 pm

cheba wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:31 pm
This is a really cool mod. Last week I was thinking about installing a boost gauge in my WRC (left air vent) and I came to think about the Scirocco/Beetle gauge cluster (yes, I know it's not accurate as a real boost gauge). I actually did a quick search to see if someone has fitted the Scirocco cluster in a Polo, but couldn't find any.

I'm wondering why the owner is using the non-R gauge cluster with red needles. The R version with blue needles would be a better match for the blue needles in the WRC main cluster. Is the R version of the cluster that hard to find?

I'd love to have this mod myself, but I have the factory BCM in my WRC (I assume that's not a BCM Max) so I guess it wouldn't work without switching BCM and recoding everything. Plus I'm a bit hesitant about cutting up the dashboard...
Your BCM is the same as in the video. :wink:

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by cheba » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:03 pm

ciclo wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Your BCM is the same as in the video. :wink:
That thought did actually crossed my mind, but in your post above you said that a BCM Max is needed. And I believe you know what you are talking about :D

So you mean a BCM Max is not needed after all? In that case it's just a question of plugging in a couple of wires?

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by spacewalker » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:41 pm

BCM have nothing to do with it.
Scirocco Aux Diplay is connected to CLUSTER CAN , not powertrain.
Normally data such as Oil temp and tubo pressure is broadcasting from ECU to cluster , and extra "gauge" just display it

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by cheba » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:15 pm

spacewalker wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:41 pm
BCM have nothing to do with it.
Scirocco Aux Diplay is connected to CLUSTER CAN , not powertrain.
Normally data such as Oil temp and tubo pressure is broadcasting from ECU to cluster , and extra "gauge" just display it
OK, then I guess the signals for the extra gauges are the same signals as those displayed in the MFA display when you have an "MFA-CS" installed. If I'm correct, then the Scirocco boost gauge becomes even more useless since that boost pressure signal will show incorrect values when using tuning software (according to the MFA-CS manufacturers specification).

I know for a fact that the Torque app for Android shows incorrect boost values when running tuning software (>2 bar with a stage 1 tune which is unreasonable). I think the broadcasted channel is showing demanded boost, not actual boost. My guess is that it's the same for the Scirocco gauge.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by spacewalker » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:38 pm

cheba wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:15 pm
spacewalker wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:41 pm
BCM have nothing to do with it.
Scirocco Aux Diplay is connected to CLUSTER CAN , not powertrain.
Normally data such as Oil temp and tubo pressure is broadcasting from ECU to cluster , and extra "gauge" just display it
OK, then I guess the signals for the extra gauges are the same signals as those displayed in the MFA display when you have an "MFA-CS" installed. If I'm correct, then the Scirocco boost gauge becomes even more useless since that boost pressure signal will show incorrect values when using tuning software (according to the MFA-CS manufacturers specification).

I know for a fact that the Torque app for Android shows incorrect boost values when running tuning software (>2 bar with a stage 1 tune which is unreasonable). I think the broadcasted channel is showing demanded boost, not actual boost. My guess is that it's the same for the Scirocco gauge.
true
take a look video.
you can see on P gear turbo not sow much
but while driving show max , which is not acually true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0N4A0tIr8

in ECU you have 2 value of turbo:
Real and dynamic
Real is almost 1,5bar ( let say is max what turbo can pump)
Dynamic is : Ambient pressure (1bar + turbo pressure )

I am working on module to show only reall value , no need to see Ambient pressure as extra pressure (however is also pressure) + turbo
This might be ok, if you are in mountains and have ambient pressure near to 0.7bar etc ..... if that exist

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by cheba » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:06 pm

spacewalker wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:38 pm
true
take a look video.
you can see on P gear turbo not sow much
but while driving show max , which is not acually true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0N4A0tIr8

in ECU you have 2 value of turbo:
Real and dynamic
Real is almost 1,5bar ( let say is max what turbo can pump)
Dynamic is : Ambient pressure (1bar + turbo pressure )

I am working on module to show only reall value , no need to see Ambient pressure as extra pressure (however is also pressure) + turbo
This might be ok, if you are in mountains and have ambient pressure near to 0.7bar etc ..... if that exist
I think what you mean is relative and absolute pressure.

Relative should be negative at idle for petrol engine (0 for diesel engine), and reach maybe 1,5 bar on full load when driving (depending on engine, software tuning etc.).

Absolute is ambient (1 bar)+relative boost pressure. So this should be a little below 1 at idle for petrol engine (1 for diesel engine), and reach maybe 2,5 bar on full load when driving. This is what we see in the video.

I think the gauge is designed to show absolute pressure since it starts at 0 and doesn't show negative values. It makes sense that VW designed it like this, since it would be confusing for customers to see negative values on a boost gauge if it showed relative pressure. Plus, by making it show absolue pressure they can show higher number (max 2,5 bar instead of max 1,5 bar relative) which looks more cool for customers who doesn't understand the physics behind it :roll:

So if I understood you correctly, you want to make it show relative pressure instead.

The question is, is there a signal for actual relative boost pressure? Because the broadcasted signal which the Torque app reads via OBD is relative pressure, but it is not the actual value from the sensor.

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by spacewalker » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:34 am

cheba wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:06 pm
.

The question is, is there a signal for actual relative boost pressure? Because the broadcasted signal which the Torque app reads via OBD is relative pressure, but it is not the actual value from the sensor.
check it....ECU must broadcast it

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Re: Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R

Post by ciclo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:46 am

cheba wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:03 pm
ciclo wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Your BCM is the same as in the video. :wink:
That thought did actually crossed my mind, but in your post above you said that a BCM Max is needed. And I believe you know what you are talking about :D

So you mean a BCM Max is not needed after all? In that case it's just a question of plugging in a couple of wires?

All WRCs (2500) have BCM Max from the factory. 7H0937090B

Only --- there is some exception --- the 6R WRC have the instrument cluster CAN lines from the factory, ... direct from BCM to IC (b54/b57 to 28/29).
This can not be seen in any available w. diagram (elsawin, erWin). You know, the obligation of VW is to hide the information, and ours find out. :lol:

In the rest of 6R (Europe 2009-2014) the CAN lines that reach the instrument cluster are those of the power train.


Clarifications:

In the title of the post says, 'Scirocco Extra Instruments on Polo 6R', doesn't say on WRC.

It implies that if someone with a 6R (any) wants to install the Scirocco additional instruments must have installed the CAN lines direct from the BCM (like the WRC), which implies (mandatory) having installed a BCM Max.
The Scirocco additional instruments only work through instrument cluster CAN lines.

However,

if anyone with a 6R wants to install the Beetle additional instruments he can install them in any of the two lines CAN, instruments or porwer train. (according elsawin)
Note: as long as the Gateway allows it. viewtopic.php?f=56&t=70404#p524967 (B9)

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