Polo 6R/6C rear clusters sorted, but what about the front?

[RUM4MO]

I'll not let this go, I'll have another go soon. One thing though, that top metal plate that the headlight securing screws go through, I don't think that it should need moved/removed to help get the headlight cluster out as its position determines the final position the headlight cluster is located at, ie the aim as it has one of the three fixed points, the lower push in points are two of them and this top plate has a "stop" on it that you press/hold the headlight cluster against while securing the top two retaining screws - that is my thoughts anyway.

[RUM4MO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftWdQM29N0k

Seeing is believing, well it looks possible!

[veteran]

Took a look. Yeh, it all seems so straighforward, doesn't it? But I froze the video at the crucial point and I could see that the mounting on which the headlight sits is of quite different design to how I perceive (in my mind) mine and yours. That's why ours are so difficult to get off. I think the Polo model in the video is a much earlier one.

I've got some rigger's leather gloves somewhere, and wearing those I'll have another go at removing the headlight. It appears you need to push quite hard on the rear of the unit. I'll try to find something to protect my forearm too, though the sleeve of a jacket might be sufficient. There are lots of sharp, nasty bits on the back of the unit, plus that top metal plate, so you could easily injure yourself if the unit suddenly and finally yielded and shot forward. I noticed that the operator positioned his other hand to try to stop the unit from moving forward too much.

[RUM4MO]

There is another youtube video that skims over the detail of getting the cluster out, but dwells a bit more on showing you the lower mounting point on the cluster and the car I think. I think that the RHS is certainly the one to practice on as the space behind the LHS one does not too good as someone left a battery in the way!

Edit:- I know that the subject of that first video is an older/early version of these cars, but I'm hoping that VW did not find any reason to change the fixing method for these light clusters.

[RUM4MO]

Well, I've had another attempt at getting the RHS headlight cluster out and eventually succeeded! I tried the rigger glove to pad my hand out a bit, they did not seem to help much, so just got tough, but not completely brutal - and out it came! One tip here is to remove the connector first, as wrestling with the connector while trying to keep the headlight back into the car as far as possible without accidentally snapping it back into place, probably I was not being positive enough about needing this cluster out. Usually rules as regards unplugging the cluster connector, ie push the mating connectors together as far as possible to take the load of the retaining tang, while pressing the connector in ease a small screwdriver blade down in on the outside of the tang and while holding the "in" towards the connector body, to ease the tang out past the locking part on the cluster end, pull the connector off the cluster.

The indicator wedge/capless bulb is another Toshiba one and the version that I have written down already. Its holding base can only be fitted back in one way round - and snaps into place.

I initially said that these clusters do not have vent pipes on them, I was wrong, they do have 2 vent points each one covered with an angled rubber tube to prevent road spray etc getting into the clusters.

The cluster is easy to refit and does make a satisfying "click/snap" when it is back into the correct position.

[veteran]

That's great news.

To make the headlight unit finally come away, what exactly did you do? Did you push/bang it from the back? Or did you merely ease it out by wiggling it at the front? Did you have to use any sort of tool to persuade it to move? And what about the foglight/direction indicator unit below? Did you then manage to get that off as well?

I've lots to do tomorrow but if the weather's dry on Thursday, I'll have another go at mine. Your tip about the electrical connector is very useful. Thanks.

I seem to recall seeing more than two vents on each of my headlights. I think there are maybe one or two of the angled rubber tubes missing from mine.

[RUM4MO]

Where it looks like extra vents, it might just be a common back plate moulding and on that specific version of cluster, that "vent" might not be used and so not open to the outside world - just a though.

In answer to "how did you get it out?" - well I did not use any tools other than a T30 bit to take the two retaining screws out, mainly I was pushing from the rear with both hands while keeping my knee near the front of the cluster to avoid it being ejected if it suddenly broke free - maybe with two hands pushing forward and more at one side than the other, very difficult to be any clearer when the joy of success wipes away the bad side of getting that cluster out!

I don't think hammering it etc will work as these lower retainers seem to be a cylinder like in shape located horizontally and longitudinally across the front of the car - if that makes any sense, and the receiving part needs to be forced open slightly for them to allow the cluster parts to escape out. In other words, if you thumped it you might get these parts to the almost halfway point but after the impact is removed they will spring back in and be back fully engaged - so it just need enough constant pushing and wiggling force to get them past the point of no return, I did consider applying a spot of Super Lub to the cluster end of that retaining mechanism, but in the end just cleaned up the cluster, confirmed what the indicator bulb type was, and refitted it.

[veteran]

With the headlight unit out, was it any easier to see how the grille-escutcheon of the foglight/DI assembly below comes off?

[RUM4MO]

No not really, but, now I've managed to remove the RHS foglight etc trim cover, that was not too easy, a few tugs, then a few more and it started to unclip, the final clipping point at the outer end of the trim needs pulling out from its mating part in the retained frame. Removing the foglight etc cluster is easy, just remove the two Torx screws and it lifts out with no other form of retaining it (unlike the headlight clusters). Now, a word of warning, when refitting the trim to the foglight etc, make sure that after inserting the outer end into its mating part, visually line up the inner end so that the two locating tangs that are sticking out are in line so that they will pass through their mating part in the retained frame, I did not think about that and after a failed attempt to seat the inner end of the trim so that it was flush with the rest of the bumper trim, I removed the trim piece to find two rather sad floppy bent down tangs, once they lined up they still fitted okay, but I can see that I need to record that part number somewhere and look out for a new one! That trim piece was manufactured in South Africa - a pointless bit of information maybe!

I've now had the undercover off that car and spotted that it has an alloy sump, that is handy, wife's previous Polo had an alloy sump as did my previous V6 Passat, unfortunately my current car, a 2011 S4, has a steel plate covering the base of the lower end of its engine, so that needs a spot of Hammerite now and again at oil change time! I've been through the rotting sump thing too many years ago with a Ford Fiesta that my wife had, I had to treat it to a new sump, which to covered in many coats of Hammerite. Actually I was quite impressed with the length of that undercover on the 6C Polo, normally on petrol engine cars they only cover up to the end of the sump. I soaked all the 9 fixing screws in WD-40 while the undercover was off, cleaned up around the area where the undercover touches the subframe etc and applied spray grease to the plate retainer nuts to keep them alive for a few more years.

[veteran]

Weather permitting, I'll be having another go at my RHS headlight unit tomorrow. As regards those rubber, angled, tubular grommets on the backs of the units, only one of four of the vent holes on each of my units have these. But it looks very much to me that the ungrommeted holes vent into the rear of the headlamp reflectors. Therefore, should they actually be grommeted? There's no telling whether, on the production line, they might have got mistakenly left off.

This afternoon, I graced Messrs Halfords with my presence. I ended up spending some £43.50 on various bulbs. I'd made out a long list of the types found thus far on my 2017 6C Polo 1.2. I found most, but couldn't spot any of the following:

H21W halogen (Phillips-pattern miniature rear foglight)
18W tail-light (original Toshiba one is type 921K but Halfords had only W16W, type 955)
35W halogen (front foglight)

I spent a long time looking but although the store's one of the biggest in SW London, those ones weren't to be found.

What I bought mainly were bulbs made by GE. Although as you say they're made in Hungary, the quality might be much the same as bulbs made elsewhere and by different manufacturers. GE (General Electric Corp) are a long-established manufacturer of electronic goods, and I notice that VW genuinely use their bulbs, in some cases.

Another thing that surprised me was that, at that store, there was no sign of replacement air filter elements and replacement disc pads being on sale, for cars of any brand. Have Halfords stop selling such things? In due course, I've been hoping to buy those particular components from Halfords. I thought I read somewhere that Ferodo DS2500 disc pads were as good as any, for the 6C/6R Polo.

I also managed to find a little bit of time today to investigate the Polo's interior lights. The vanity lights (both driver and passenger side) are 5W festoons (20mm-long glass envelope). But I was unable to access the front set of 'reading' lights and also the lights above the rear seats. The escutcheons over and around them clearly use very tight hidden clips to keep everything in place, and I was bedevilled once again with the fear of forcing them too much and breaking something. All of the interior ones could be 5W festoons, for all I know. You just can't tell unless and until you get to them.

[RUM4MO]

Re Halfords, that is a nuisance, the H21W goes by the type "435" £6.00 in my case unfortunately Halfords own brand, the front fog light 35Watt is an H8 and goes by the code "708" £15 - again I think Halfords own brand. Maybe try using these codes in Halfords website and they will say if they are in stock.

So far I've held off buying front foglight bulbs, really just in case I consider buying maybe Philips version in ECP - still to be done.

Air filter elements, for a car so new to the market, I'd tend to buy from VW though probably on line from VW dealer etraders if it is cheaper when factoring in postage etc, ECP will sell some OEM versions, maybe look inside and see which German brand is used in your car (I've not done that yet) Hengst and Mann tend to be used a lot, though on my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza with the old 1.4 16V 86PS petrol engine, there is other brand markings other than "VW Made in Italy" .

Brakes, for all my VWs, Audi and SEAT brakes I've only ever used ECP as they are the official importers for TMD Friction brands that VW Group tend to use, mainly Textar and Pagid - I think that maybe SEAT and maybe Skoda also use Bosch, but I don't know who manufacturers their brake parts for them. If your car had the 110PS version of that engine, it would have ATE front callipers and pads . In the past, my Passat had Textar front pads in ATE callipers and Pagid rear pads in Lucas/TRW Callipers. For discs I've stuck with Pagid as they seem to offer a good balance of price and quality, again from ECP.

[veteran]

Thanks for giving me the generic type nos. for the H21W and the 35 watt halogen. Earlier this evening I was using the Web to try to find some of these and finally realised that the 35W one is an H8. So it comes with an integral, angled connector. Jeez, car bulbs have certainly become more numerous in designs since I last changed one! And the more I delve into the field of car lightbulbs, the more of a veritable minefield it is.

There's a Euro Car Parts (ECP) not far from me but I don't think they do a Philips H21W (bayonet, assymetric pins). They do some other unknown brand, for £7.19. However, if you take a really close look (picture on the Web), it doesn't appear to be made all that well. The Halfords' H21W, when you can find it, seems to be good value, but again I don't think it's particularly good quality (judging by the Web picture). You can certainly find other sources of H21W's and type 708 35W halogens on the Web (eg, at Amazon and at eBay) but at really inflated prices. Some of those sold on the Web may be counterfeit, who knows. Incidentally, would you say that, where tail-light W16W is concerned, a type 921 is precisely the same fitting as a type 955?

I'll perhaps return to Halfords next week or later, to try to find a suitable H21W and type 708 35W halogen. If necessary, I'll have to get my Halfords to order them in for me. Hopefully, by then I'll also know what the remainder of the interior lights of the car comprise.

One of my priorities at present is to obtain and fit the large plastic grommet that's missing from the centre of the floorpan, under the car. This weekend I'll put the car on ramps and have a look at the underparts rather more closely, checking to see if any other grommets or bungs are missing. I'll most probably have to order any missing ones from my local VW dealer, as they need to fit well and particularly that one in the floor's centre may be subject to heat radiated from the nearby exhaust pipe. It's essential to properly stopper such openings, as leaving great holes in the floorpan and sills is crass and will simply let water and muck into the box sections and rot them (even if they've been internally treated by VW with wax). That big hole (which must be somewhere between 20mm and 30mm diam; I'll need to carefully measure it) must be impacting the amount of roadnoise being transmitted up through the floorpan as well. And I think I'll be ordering from VW more of those angled, tubular, rubber headlight grommets too. Doubtless, I'll get some disparaging remarks from the dealer, but then that's par for the course.

[RUM4MO]

First type 955 and type 921, 955 complies with E regs for filament bulbs and 921 does not - now this could purely be down to 955 being the more common used version or the newer version, I don't know, maybe check that out on the Ring site - all physical dimensions are the same only wattage is different 18W against 16W.

Grommets missing on the floorpan, not good at all, I have been trusting so far and have not checked under there much except for brakes etc!

Bulbs being special and coming with connectors and/or angles connectors - yes, this has been going on for quite a long time, mainly, I think, with maybe French cars - but I'd expect that from them, as I said I think earlier, it looks like the front indicator bulbs on my 2011 S4 are that special that they only have a VW Group part number - and that is not good, I must chase that up on the Audi forum!

I think that maybe I was thinking that I should check "Power Bulbs" website for the front fog lights on the Polo and the S4 as they probably carry Philips Premium versions as well as brighter versions.

As I said, you can check availability at Halfords local to you on line, and if necessary reserve them for collection, I've done that a few times.

I tend to avoid any of ECP's "fancy" own name brands for most stuff, okay for brake cleaner etc though.

[RUM4MO]

Just one other thing seeing as you seem to be interested to looking after your car, have you ever considered fitting Audi TT Jacking Point Protectors to your Polo, I fitted them to my wife's 2002 Polo and when she got this one in August 2015 I bought a new set for it, mainly as I failed miserably when trying to remove them from that car! They are very handy if you lift the car up using a trolley jack as they stay on the car and you just place the cup of the trolley jack under each one - no messing about looking for the best point and using wood as a spreader.

[veteran]

Well, before I get to the good news .... and the bad news ..... let me respond to your suggestion about jacking-point protectors. Yes, I did all the maintenance and repairs from day one on my previous VW, a Mk3 Golf GL. As with now, I had that vehicle from new. Wherever possible and economic, I fitted genuine VW replacement parts on it that I bought at my local VW dealer. That car lasted me 23 years. For many long periods it'd run without a single fault, needing no major work on it, and it was always a comfortable drive. Bl**dy marvellous car. In fact, it was still in A1 condition (especially the bodywork) when I handed it over to a young nephew of mine recently, for him to have and run. So it just proves that if you've access to the requisite manuals, have a good set of tools, and the practical skills and inclination, you can achieve wonders.

On that Mk3 Golf there were - as with the current Polos - four recommended sill lifting points. Of course, these are only ever meant for wheel-changes, not for lifting more of the car than that. For more than just lifting to remove a wheel, VW built into the floorpan of the Mk3 Golf four specific lifting points. These, they stressed, should be used when lifting the front, rear or both-front-and-rear of the car. They were especially-strengthened little areas of the floorpan. For the rear, there were 'quadrants' just forward of the wheel arches. These rear points were just inboard of roughly where you'd use the wheel-jack on the sill. For the front of the car, there were a couple of not-so-obvious inboard floorpan projections. Lifting the car using the sump or any of the subframes was a total no-no, according to VW, and rightly so in my view.

Well, in due course the MOT tester's lifters began to bite right through these points on the Golf, right through the bitumenous floorcovering, and right down to bare metal, so early on I bought some thick sheet rubber of the requisite hardness from a nearby engineering works and made four rubber pads. On every MOT, I then asked the tester to place the pads between his lifters and the floorpan. He agreed, and it solved the problem. I think you can understand from that that this is typical of many small things that, if not dealt with properly, can lead to serious deterioration of the vehicle. But it required some effort on my part to find and fashion a solution for it.

So, as it happens, one thing that I've been intending to look for on this new Polo of mine is whether it has any Golf-style floorpan lifting points. Maybe this weekend, when I get under the car to inspect the grommets, I'll be able to find out. Otherwise, I'll be asking the forum! I must say, though, that I rarely use my trolley jack, mainly because it can so easily slip away. After all, it has castors. For safety, I prefer not to rely on a trolley jack. For most jobs I did on the Golf, it was sufficient to just drive the car up my ramps. I've always had a big thing about safety.

All that said though, I'm quite interested in your Audi TT jacking-point protectors. Can you give me the URL of the retailer that sells them? What are they made of, and how much do they cost?

Now to the ubiquitous headlight unit et al. I finally succeeded in getting it off. But what a faff! At first, it simply wouldn't budge but finally, pushing from the rear, it suddenly came away (with a bang). Undoing its electrical connector was also an exercise in unnecessary difficulty and sheer cussed persistence. Really, connectors ought not to be as tricky as this to take apart. That's just poor design. I'm long since retired but I come from a professional engineering background, so I think I can assess when something's well-designed and when it isn't.

Of course, the problems didn't just end the moment the unit became free. There was the business of fishing around in the three main apertures, to remove the various bulbs. The halogen ones required loosening off of some torx screws, before the bulb was withdrawable. Surprisingly, the sidelight (one of two bulbs that could be withdrawn by just pulling a sort of built-in handle) was a W5W Toshiba wedge (18mm x 9mm glass envelope); from the front, it'd looked like a bayonet type. The amber direction-indicator, which had also seemed to be a bayonet type, turned out to be a Toshiba wedge as well, a WY21W. From their detailed labellings, all of these bulbs were longlife types, so if spares are to be kept, we each ought to try to source equally longlife bulbs.

One thing I noticed was that the two 55W H7's had grey tips. The GE one I've now bought as a spare has a jet-black tip. Whether this makes any difference to the amount of light thrown forward or dispersed to the sides is an unknown. But if you ever replaced just one of the 55W H7's you could possibly end up with the luminosity on one side of the car being different to that on the other side. So, it might pay to seek out and use the grey-tipped one. They're Osrams. You'd probably have to order them from the VW dealer, and of course pay the dealer's price.

With the headlight unit still out - actually, I took the headlight indoors and worked on it on the sofa; heh, heh, heh - I had another go at removing the grille-trim of the foglight/DI unit below. This time, using the hook and the advice in the Driver's Manual, I yanked more forcefully on it. It did then finally and slowly come undone from its concealed upper and lower snap-tabs. But mine was still such a tight fit at the inner end that the lower edge of the trim split along about half its length as it came away. That lower edge is only about 2mm thick. I then managed to pull the trim forward enough to undo the assembly's two torx scews and to lift it out. That then gave me access to its bulbs and to read off the requisite information. The inner bulb is an Osram 35W H8 64212, the outer bulb is a Toshiba wedge W21W LL. In retrospect, it might have been feasible, and therefore better, to have left the trim in place and extracted the bulbs in situ, ie. reaching down behind the assembly, pulling off the electrical connectors and then twisting and withdrawing the bulbs.

In putting the lower assembly back, I've used some Araldite in an attempt to make good that lower edge, but it's clearly one of a number of weak bits of its design. I heeded your tip about ensuring that the inner lugs were lined up, before then snapping the escutcheon fully back into place. Before I did that, I made a note of the trim's part no.: 6C0 853 666, so that at perhaps some time in the future I can order a replacement. I bet it'll cost in excess of £30. Its chrome insert might well be a separate part. As you said, I think, that trim was made in SA.

So, it's all done now - but with some collateral damage. There's just the interior lights to sort out now.