Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

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RUM4MO
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Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

I noticed that my wife's August 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS SEL starting making some annoying clinking noises at the end of last Autumn, over the winter it quieten down, now with this proper Summer weather these noises are back with a vengeance, so I checked the car over, to start with I had an annoying knocking at hot idle, that was down to the low pressure line tapping against the A/C discharge pipe and polishing a section of that aluminium pipe, I sorted that out by buying a suitable VW Group "bridging clip/bracket" similar in style but not exactly the same item that later cars were fitted with, it allows this fuel line to get held further across and away from the A/C discharge pipe, so that one was removed. Next I applied a strip of Velcro around the primary engine air inlet part that gets snapped into place at the radiator top area. Still too much unnecessary noises, mainly when the weather is hot and/or engine hot, and only when the powertrain experiences a change in load with a fixed throttle - so in my book that means that the way the power train gets hung in the car's frame is not too good. So, I drove it up onto a couple of ramps, removed the under cover to improve access etc and had a good look around, the only issues were a N/S split lower wishbone rear rubber bonded mounting and a slightly easy to rotate N/S ARB droplink.

I booked the car in to local VW dealer and scripted my thoughts on what I was complaining about and what I had done to try to improve things and what I had found after examining the car, booking in service desk person kept swopping my "TCA for TRE" which did not help or inspire me, though I thought the word doc would clear things up a bit.

So the car was dully worked on, operation 01 was addressing what I mentioned in my word doc and that resulted in them replacing the N/S lower wishbone rear bonded mounting bush - and they also replaced the N/S strut top rubber mount and bearing. Operation 02 seemed to address the incorrect though corrected or attempted to correct issue over the non extistance of the N/S TRE rubber being split - okay these techs must carry out tasks listed by the service desk even if they sound like someone got the wrong end of the stick, so a new N/S TRE and nuts were fitted!

The car was ready for collection the next day, but after wasting 1.5 days delivering to and waiting for an update, wife reckoned we should stay at home and do other tasks and not go for a run to check the car for improvement, so today it was taken out, after about 5 miles same noises again, so first attempt seems to have failed.

What to do next as handing cars in is boring, very boring especially when you get a bad feeling over getting any resolution? I am considering attempting chatting with VW UK to see if they have anyone who is technically competent available and able to assist my dealer in resolving this issue, I can't believe that this car is the first one to have exhibited these issues, as far as I can work out there has not been any change in engine/gearbox mounting parts, so getting them to replace all the powertrain mountings would only sort things if one was faulty - and it does not look like they are! One thing, the strut top mounts and/or their bearings were blamed for this sort of noise in early models ie 6R and similar Fabia and Ibiza 6J - in fact my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza did have some other type of annoying clunks which other people seemed to get sorted out under warranty by fitting newer versions of the top strut and bearing - which I did when replacing springs on that car as it had these different noises, and that resolved that in the Ibiza - but these clunking noises are different and slightly rubbery and when happening "lightly" are a single clunk, but when happening "heavily" maybe when driving over a slight slow ramp this noise is a double clunk - all of which sounds more like powertrain mounting design issues, but how to get VW UK to address that?
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iichel
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by iichel »

Could you give the bushes of the anti roll bar a quick squirt with WD40 or another oil?
You should be able to reach them if you do yoga near the front wheels., with the steering wheel on a lock (so i.e. left anti roll bar bushing on the subframe and right side coupling rods between anti roll bar and shock absorber).

It made a difference on my Polo, even though my Polo is a pensioner compared to your three-year old. Some regular WD40 solved the squeeking, confirming the diagnosis.
After that, some more permanent solutions were made (rubbers and coupling rods replaced).
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

I might try that if some thing has not been done to them already, when I first got the car back and looked under the bonnet (like you do?), I noticed that there were traces of copper grease on the lock plate area, now I know and other's do that when you are working on a car greases and other dirty stuff ends up on some surfaces, so I just wiped it clean and left it at that. I have just had another look under the bonnet and it seems like the LHS gearbox top mounting has been disturbed and there is copper grease on that assembly, what good or how suitable copper grease is for what looks like a very compliant rubber bonded mounting that allows front to rear movement to exist I can't say, but at least the tech was interested enough to try to apply some lubrication to the powertrain mountings - if that can improve things I can't say as I think that that gearbox top mounting is a bonded rubber assembly so no metal parts moving through other metal parts, the plot thickens!

Local annual Traditional Scottish Beer Festival happens for me tomorrow, so no looking around cars that day!
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iichel
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by iichel »

RUM4MO wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:43 pm Local annual Traditional Scottish Beer Festival happens for me tomorrow, so no looking around cars that day!
At least you got a good story for it!
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

Ha Ha, my "car" drinking friend needed to be relieved from beer festival duties that day due to a daughter graduating from university, so maybe I'd need to bore a lesser "car" drinking friend!
Ricmondo
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by Ricmondo »

I hope you can sort it.

Not really relevant so apologies but your mention of Velcro stirred my grey matter, never a good thing.

If you need Velcro to hold pipes, wires or what have you Garden Centres and Amazon sell small rolls to cut into plant ties. I bought one to do a few jobs and the rest made a good Christmas present for my wife who likes to potter in the garden. I just hope my generosity doesn’t go to her head.

It works well.
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

I seem to have various grades of Velcro in a drawer including the light duty version with sticky back, this is what I used on the primary engine air inlet ducting part, the reason for choosing that was, as that area can get very warm/hot from heat soak, I felt that I needed something that filled the free space around where that part fits inside another part and that foam would just deform, age and so lose its effectiveness, with Velcro I considered that the harder loops would keep their shape and the sticky side would aim initial fitting.

Some time ago, I was looking on line for heavier duty Velcro as I discovered that when the driver and/or passenger seat is at a certain height and position, the plastic "buckle" of the seat belt can end up "tap tap taping" against the plastic dress panel on the seat. On my 2011 Audi S4, this can almost happen so Audi has addressed that potential issue by fitting a section of the soft looped type of Velcro round these "buckles" - and it works very well as these soft loops deaden any noises. So, I found a proper Velcro agent and was just about to order a strip at quite an expense, when I looked at Halfords website and they stocked the same heavy duty Velcro in that width for about a 1/4 of the price, so I bought it right away in Halfords, time being of the essence and cut 2 pieces ready to fit - but it was maybe -10C outside, so I have saved that job for a warmer day - so maybe it is too warm now, though as your comments have forced me to remember I have this Velcro, I should really complete that "very urgent" task this weekend - or next!!
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

I'm beginning to think that the game is up on trying to get this car sorted out within warranty, from the Fabia forum, it seems at the first visit, the gearbox mounting should get removed and greased and refitted, I found evidence of copper grease on the slam panel and later on the gearbox mounting, further digging into part numbers of items replaced I have found that all the gearbox mounting bolts and its console bolts have been replaced, so the tech has followed VW's mandated path. If the car then comes back in, that mounting is meant to get replaced and maybe also the engine mounting. So if I wanted to waste quite a few hours of my life driving to dealer, getting a a bus home and reversing that, I'm sure that at least the gearbox mounting would get replaced - but here's the thing, it seems that these mountings are not fit for purpose, so after maybe a month this clunking will return and the warranty has expired! I am thinking that I'll not bother getting a new mounting fitted right now, but I'll wait until I see the part number changing which would indicate a revision of that part - or buy and fit a "poly" version of that mounting.

Edit:- my issue is, the engine mounting looks the same as the ones used in the 2002> onwards Polos etc, but it has a "6C0" prefix though that might not mean much other than it has been revised since it was first used with a "6Q0" prefix, unfortunately, the gearbox mounting has a "6Q0" prefix, so it roughly the same item as has been in use since maybe 2002 - but my wife's old 2002 Polo never suffered from these clunking noises!?

Another Edit:- the "AS" version of this gearbox mounting has been previously used on earlier Polos, much earlier, with either the 3 cylinder 1.4 TDI engines(ASF and BAY) and the 4 cylinder 1.9 SDI engines(ASY), so, as my wife's previous Polo was a 1.4 16V 75PS petrol engine, it used the "AR" version of this mounting with no issues, I wonder if this "AS" version is much more compliant to stop the vibration of DERV engines getting through to the passenger cell, and the "AR" is a lot stiffer as these non turbo petrol engines are smoother, and if so, I wonder if it would solve my problems but not introduce any other problems if I retro fitted the "AR" version of this mounting - or do VW Group need to wise up and design/manufacture a slightly less compliant version of the "AS" version?
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

Okay, so I have been sourcing gearbox mounting part numbers from EKTA, now I've had a look at that car, an August 1.2TSI 110PS Polo built in SA and I've discovered that the gearbox mounting fitted at factory is 6Q0 199 555 AR, but its service replacement is listed as being 6Q0 199 555 AS which has also existed since maybe 2002, and used on DERV Polos only - well on the 9N Polos anyway, so this is not simply an evolution of the "earlier" part but a variant for use with different engines in the same model range. (the 6Q0 199 555 AR was only ever fitted to lower powered petrol engines)

So, if I bother to hand my car back in they will, I think, this time replace the engine mounting and that will not only end up with the car having a new engine mounting, but also a different variant of that mounting, so maybe that was done to address things like this clunking, which I'm guessing is the mounting rubber element hitting its rear or front frame on full extension fore<>aft. Time costs us money though?
RUM4MO
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Re: Clunking maybe Rubbery kinds of noises.

Post by RUM4MO »

Well I did hand the car back in for the next action to be taken on a car being reported with having clunking noises, it had to be left in as they needed to order in a new gearbox mounting and that was taking 2 days to get delivered. So today we collected the car and there is now some gearbox noises passing through into the passenger cell, after getting home, I checked the p/n on the new mounting and it is now an "AS" version which replaced an "AR" version, grabbing and rocking the engine proves that this new version of mounting is a lot stiffer than the original factory fitted version - and that will be why some gearbox noises are being heard in the passenger cabin. For the time being, I'm quite happy if that stiffer version stops the clunking and I'll get used to the gearbox noise. It would be handy to know where each version of these gearbox top mountings sits relative to the others in terms of stiffness, and that includes all versions both 6Q0 ones and any 6C0 ones, plus any other ones that fit this space and purpose.

Edit:- by the way, I did expect that if they fitted a stiffer mounting the trade off would be drive train noises getting into the passenger cabin - as always.
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