6C Sat Nav

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hutch
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6C Sat Nav

Post by hutch » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:40 pm

When i picked my car up last year it was one of the last 6Cs and I was too late to factory order so never got to chose what options I was getting on it. Starting to realise I needed sat nav more and more, is this an option I can have retrofitted at all? Or am I looking at a whole new headunit? Has anyone got experience of doing either?

PhilEvelyn
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by PhilEvelyn » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:55 pm

Depends which head unit you have. Some, like mine have all the brains of the unit in the dashboard and can be upgraded with any double DIN headunit. Some have the brains in the glove box. That's not so easy. There is a Kenwood add-on you can get that plugs into the Composition Media device but I decided my phone was quicker and cheaper lol.

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veteran
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by veteran » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:40 pm

hutch,

If you're wanting something with a good-sized screen, high video clarity, and linked into the car's audio system, then the add-on unit for the Composition Media unit, from VW/Kenwood, referred to vaguely by PhilEvelyn, would be the way to go. It wouldn't mean having to replace the existing media unitscreen, instead you add two hardware modules (which come with appropriate wiring harnesses) to the space at the rear of the existing media unit/rear of glovebox. These then display all the mapping on your existing CM unit and the satnav audio automatically links into your existing in-car speakers. It's quite expensive kit, though - around £600. I've been weighing up whether to get and fit one myself. One of the firms marketing it in the UK is InCarTechnology, located in Devon I think. They've a couple of in-depth videos about it on YouTube, showing you how to install it as well. If you wish, you can get the firm, or possibly even your local VW workshop, to fit it, for a price.

Yes, maybe organising satnav in the car by using an iPhone and the requisite app will be a whole lot cheaper, but you've got to ask yourself whether you'd want your phone needing to be demounted every time you park the car, the risk of it falling off the dashboard, and the fact that you'd be peering at a small screen. IMHO, the proper way to do it would be for the satnav to be 'built in', which is precisely what the VW-sanctioned Kenwood piece of kit gives you.

Not absolutely certain of this but I think the model no. for it is Kenwood Navigation System for Composition Media, GVN-MIB1. The p/no. is ZGB5G0051259. Search through advanced-incar.co.uk for it.

SRGTD
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by SRGTD » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:47 pm

The OP’s car is a 2017 6c Polo GTI so will have the brains of the infotainment unit in the glove box.

OP; if you’ve got Car Net App Connect and an Android phone, you can use one of the sat nav phone apps and have the maps displayed on your infotainment unit screen. If you have an iPhone, when IOS 12 is released later this year, you should then also be able to use third party sat nav apps via your iPhone and display the maps on your infotainment unit screen.

Andy1273
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by Andy1273 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:30 pm

veteran wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:40 pm
hutch,

If you're wanting something with a good-sized screen, high video clarity, and linked into the car's audio system, then the add-on unit for the Composition Media unit, from VW/Kenwood, referred to vaguely by PhilEvelyn, would be the way to go. It wouldn't mean having to replace the existing media unitscreen, instead you add two hardware modules (which come with appropriate wiring harnesses) to the space at the rear of the existing media unit/rear of glovebox. These then display all the mapping on your existing CM unit and the satnav audio automatically links into your existing in-car speakers. It's quite expensive kit, though - around £600. I've been weighing up whether to get and fit one myself. One of the firms marketing it in the UK is InCarTechnology, located in Devon I think. They've a couple of in-depth videos about it on YouTube, showing you how to install it as well. If you wish, you can get the firm, or possibly even your local VW workshop, to fit it, for a price.

I've seen this from Incar technology too and I'm also very tempted in upgrading. It looks like the ideal solution. As you say the cost isn't cheap but I don't plan on selling my polo for a long time so it will be a worth while investment. The company also do a finance option which may help with the cost. I've not enquired how much fitting will be though?

hutch
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by hutch » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:58 pm

Thanks for your very in depth replies. I have reaserched the kenwood system in detail and it looks very good, much like the standard VW one that can be chosen as an option. The only issue I seem to come across is some people reporting that they have struggled to get a signal, as well as having to pay £75 a year for updates which seems crazy after such a huge outlay!

I unfortunatley dont have mirror link and have an iPhone, although have looked into getting apple car play activated but still just doesn't quite seem the same as proper nav! Im with you Veteran Im not keen on peering at my phone all the time, and I wouldnt be able to resist handling it thus getting me a ticket knowing my luck! Im a long way away from Devon up in the North of Scotland so would have to fit myself, although the finance option sounds very very temping!

veteran
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by veteran » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 am

The only issue I seem to come across is some people reporting that they have struggled to get a signal, as well as having to pay £75 a year for updates which seems crazy after such a huge outlay!

Yes, I've heard similar rumours. As far as updates are concerned, they're presumably not compulsory and given that the likelihood of them ever affecting you will be low, you could opt to not have the updates. That's the way I would look at it.

As for issues concerning GPS signal strength, this could come about simply by the transceiver loop being positioned inappropriately in the vehicle. Fitting the loop in or around steel parts of the dashboard, or in any of the car's pillars will almost certainly result in a very small signal, as any metal parts of the car surrounding the loop would act as a Faraday cage, providing an almost perfect electrical screen and highly reducing the signal. My guess is that the loop's best fitted to the underside of the plastic dash-top, just behind where the dash meets the windscreen. Logically, that would be the best position, bearing in mind the rake of the windscreen. Whether that's actually a practical proposition remains to be seen.

Actually, something I've always wondered about is whether the car's roof aerial already incorporates (say, in its base) a GPS loop. Clearly, the exterior of the car - the roof - would be the proper place to put a GPS loop, and any forward-thinking car manufacturer would surely ensure that all the car models would have that sort of combo antenna built-in, when the car's made at the factory.

hutch
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by hutch » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:32 am

veteran wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 am
The only issue I seem to come across is some people reporting that they have struggled to get a signal, as well as having to pay £75 a year for updates which seems crazy after such a huge outlay!

Yes, I've heard similar rumours. As far as updates are concerned, they're presumably not compulsory and given that the likelihood of them ever affecting you will be low, you could opt to not have the updates. That's the way I would look at it.

As for issues concerning GPS signal strength, this could come about simply by the transceiver loop being positioned inappropriately in the vehicle. Fitting the loop in or around steel parts of the dashboard, or in any of the car's pillars will almost certainly result in a very small signal, as any metal parts of the car surrounding the loop would act as a Faraday cage, providing an almost perfect electrical screen and highly reducing the signal. My guess is that the loop's best fitted to the underside of the plastic dash-top, just behind where the dash meets the windscreen. Logically, that would be the best position, bearing in mind the rake of the windscreen. Whether that's actually a practical proposition remains to be seen.

Actually, something I've always wondered about is whether the car's roof aerial already incorporates (say, in its base) a GPS loop. Clearly, the exterior of the car - the roof - would be the proper place to put a GPS loop, and any forward-thinking car manufacturer would surely ensure that all the car models would have that sort of combo antenna built-in, when the car's made at the factory.
Makes sense with the gps antenna, if not Im sure there must be a way to upgrade the cars antenna, I would imagine it would be similar size so you'd never notice on the outside. Getting very tempted to go ahead and order this unit, just concerned about fitment. Have you seen much about peopl doing it themselves? I do a lot of mechanical work being a mech technician offshore but this is a different ball park for me. Going to order from that company and devon and they dont have anyone near me who can fit it, means a trip down to the borders an excess of five hours driving

hutch
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by hutch » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:38 am

veteran wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:56 am
The only issue I seem to come across is some people reporting that they have struggled to get a signal, as well as having to pay £75 a year for updates which seems crazy after such a huge outlay!

Yes, I've heard similar rumours. As far as updates are concerned, they're presumably not compulsory and given that the likelihood of them ever affecting you will be low, you could opt to not have the updates. That's the way I would look at it.

As for issues concerning GPS signal strength, this could come about simply by the transceiver loop being positioned inappropriately in the vehicle. Fitting the loop in or around steel parts of the dashboard, or in any of the car's pillars will almost certainly result in a very small signal, as any metal parts of the car surrounding the loop would act as a Faraday cage, providing an almost perfect electrical screen and highly reducing the signal. My guess is that the loop's best fitted to the underside of the plastic dash-top, just behind where the dash meets the windscreen. Logically, that would be the best position, bearing in mind the rake of the windscreen. Whether that's actually a practical proposition remains to be seen.

Actually, something I've always wondered about is whether the car's roof aerial already incorporates (say, in its base) a GPS loop. Clearly, the exterior of the car - the roof - would be the proper place to put a GPS loop, and any forward-thinking car manufacturer would surely ensure that all the car models would have that sort of combo antenna built-in, when the car's made at the factory.
Makes sense with the gps antenna, if not Im sure there must be a way to upgrade the cars antenna, I would imagine it would be similar size so you'd never notice on the outside. Getting very tempted to go ahead and order this unit, just concerned about fitment. Have you seen much about peopl doing it themselves? I do a lot of mechanical work being a mech technician offshore but this is a different ball park for me. Going to order from that company and devon and they dont have anyone near me who can fit it, means a trip down to the borders an excess of five hours driving

Andy1273
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by Andy1273 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:52 pm

They do say they have nationwide fitters, I'm in Leeds and I'm the same would need it fitting professionally. I've not enquired yet so don't know if they have one in my area?

They also mention ....

Due to the physical restraints we can supply a USB Card Extender for an additional £25. This means you can update your maps etc without the need to remove your glovebox each time (Which is a pain in the backside). Please make us aware if you need this prior to purchase.

What is this regarding?

Keep us updated as to how you get on, as I'm seriously considering purchasing this product too.

veteran
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by veteran » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Yes, I was also going to mention that they probably had nationwide fitters, but at the last moment I forgot. I'd recommend, hutch, that you e-mail InCarTechnology with any queries you have about fitting, ongoing costs, and so forth, before you go ahead and buy. Certainly, that's what I intend doing (when I can find the time; I seem to be constantly busy with other things).

It's several months ago when I was last researching this product but I seem to recall that there was an SD card reader slot available on the hardware somewhere, for updating the satnav system via that method (software updates, improved maps, new maps, etc) but that it was not easily accessible once all of the hardware and extra looms were installed. So the extender lead (I don't recall it being specifically a USB lead but I have to confess my memory's a bit woolly on that now) is something that InCarTechnology are offering to get around that. When not in use you'd tuck the lead behind the passenger's footwell carpet or more-permanently incorporate it. Hmm, looks like I need to revisit their website and their YouTube videos to refresh my memory about that.

BTW, I thought I read somewhere that VW dealerships will offer to fit this unit, if you wish. It is, after all, a piece of kit developed by Kenwood/Garmin in collaboration with VW. So, you don't have to travel right across the UK, to Devon, to get it fitted. Not far from where I myself live, one of the other retailers selling this unit is actually opposite the local VW showroom/dealership, so when that retailer has a customer who then needs the unit fitting, he sends them across the road to the VW dealer.

Andy1273
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by Andy1273 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:46 pm

I think that would be my preferred option , to get VW to fit the system for me, but at what cost?
They may be able to sort out the apparent GPS signal issues?

veteran
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by veteran » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:32 am

They may be able to sort out the apparent GPS signal issues?

I somehow doubt that.

As said earlier, the placement/positioning of the GPS antenna loop is quite critical, as otherwise you could lose an awful lot of the GPS signal. Ideally, the loop needs to be fitted on an 'earth plane', ie. a broad, flat, conductive metallic part of the vehicle, but must not be covered or closely surrounded by other metallic parts. There's possibly somewhere in the dashboard, up high near the windscreen, where it can be put (paying strict attention to the side of the loop that needs to face the sky) but the interiors of dashboards clearly differ quite a lot, so unless you can rely on someone who's already done the job, you can't predict at this stage what the difficulties will be and how the result will turn out. It's pretty obvious that, for the very best result concerning GPS signal strength, the place for the loop is on the exterior of the car, and as high up as possible - the roof, in other words.

I've some experience at having fitted, from scratch, a bee-sting antenna on a Golf of mine some years ago and so I've some reasonable idea as to what to expect when fitting any sort of new antenna on the car's roof. In the case of this GPS loop, I'd almost certainly fit it myself therefore, and in that regard I've found, in the VW Retrofits section of InCarTechnologies' website, a couple of products of interest: a weatherproof GPS antenna for exterior usage, and a sharksfin roof assembly that incorporates GPS, FM and DAB antennae all in one. The advert claims that any prior VAG Group roof antenna can be replaced by the sharksfin one with the addition of a special seal. Replacing any bee-sting antenna with the sharksfin type would be one solution to render a GPS loop in the very best position, therefore.

As for the simple but weatherproofed antenna loop, I've a feeling it wouldn't be sufficiently robust in one other respect. The best place for that would be on the roof behind the existing roof antenna, just in front of the tailgate edge. But something like that really needs to be bolted to the roof (in the way that a bee-sting antenna is), not just held there by magnetism. That would mean putting a hole in the roof. Well, there are many GPS loop antennae for sale on the Web but I've yet to find one that's made like that. In design, the lead ('tail') would also need to incorporate miniaturised additional connections, as per all car-roof-mounted antennae, as otherwise the SMA connector/blue cover in this case would not pass through the hole. On a standard GPS loop antenna, I think the blue plastic cover over the connector would be temporarily removeable, but the SMA connector wouldn't be. Care would also need to be taken that the overall lead length would be sufficient to reach the front of the car, then going down through/by the A-pillar to the dashboard. You could of course try fitting it on the roof without drilling a hole but there'd be, I think, a risk that the lead could get crushed by the tailgate top-edge whenever the tailgate's opened and closed.

I've given this description in the event that either of the two ideas could be of interest to you. For you, in both cases, you'd need to find someone capable of doing the fitting to the roof. If someone - a pro fitter or a VW workshop - experienced in fitting bee-sting antennae can be found, then they shouldn't have any problem in retrofitting, let's say, the above-described sharksfin on a Polo.

The only slight doubt I have about the sharksfin is that, due to its lower profile design, FM reception may be less good than with a bee-sting. Another tech issue needing exploration would be whether any such roof-mounted GPS loop would require a small DC voltage supply for amplification of the signal. Normally, you'd find that sort of arrangement for a bee-sting FM/DAB, the DC lead being part of the tail connections on the base of the antenna.

Andy1273
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by Andy1273 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:50 pm

There are vw polos that have sat nav from factory so how have they overcome the signal issues?

SRGTD
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Re: 6C Sat Nav

Post by SRGTD » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:41 pm

Andy1273 wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:50 pm
There are vw polos that have sat nav from factory so how have they overcome the signal issues?
Pretty certain the GPS antenna location for the VW factory fit sat nav is integrated into the roof aerial assembly, so it’s probably in the optimum position to pick up a good signal.

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