Ball joints

[937carrera]

My red GTi needed a new ball joint, which I fitted but the rear bolt is fouling on the hub.

I initially fitted a EuroCarParts item. When it didn't fit I decided to go to GSF and spent time with the guy on the parts counter. We agreed that for 14" wheels you have to swap over the left / right ball joints and so I have now fitted a GSF component. It just clears, but when I look at the right hand side the ball joint is central in the semi circle of the wishbone. It's nowhere near on the left hand side. Here are some pictures

First the left hand side showing how close the bolt is - even when the ball joint nut is not clamped up



Then the left hand side where you can see that the joint is pretty central in the wishbone, perhaps even slightly forward, and the ball joint bolts are spaced pretty evenly from the hub


Now the left hand side again, you can hopefully see that the ball joint is not central in the wishbone, it's certainly located rearwards and the cutout is not aligned with the central bolt like it is on the right hand side.


I'm confused. I can't see that two aftermarket suppliers have the wrong parts and have also removed the wishbone and compared it to the right hand side (I believe they are the same part, just turned upside down.

Any Ideas ?

[alexperkins]

Wishbones aren't sided so it's not that

What's the corresponding VW part number on your Gsf receipt?

[937carrera]

That would be 6N0 407 365A - funny, I haven't bought from GSF for ages and hadn't noticed that they have the VW equivalent part

The left wishbone looks newer. I took it off to compare against the right hand side in case it was the wrong wishbone (6N and Golf MK3 are similar according to the GSF guy)

[alexperkins]

that looks like the wrong side to me given the placement of the balljoint into the wishbone

From an old post I found I said:

The correct parts are....

6N0407365 Left

6N0407365A Right

Left is passenger side on a right hand drive vehicle or drivers side on a left hand drive vehicle

Ps that front disk looks badly worn on the back

[alexperkins]

Although on looking at the PZ codes, the GTI matches the parts to be the other way around

http://www.partscats.info/volkswagen/en ... d=12434877

See 7/7A for the ARC/AVY engine with ref to the PZ codes then 8/8A

You must also remember the balljoints can move backwards and forwards to set the camber/castor on the front hubs

[937carrera]

that looks like the wrong side to me given the placement of the balljoint into the wishbone

<snip>

Ps that front disk looks badly worn on the back

I agree, it does look like the wrong side, but having had both types of ball joints in my hand with a set of vernier calipers there's actually very little difference and that they are barely handed at all.

Unfortunately I binned the original part a couple of weeks ago when I put the new one on so can't compare to that either.

The car has been stood for a while (it's a rescue) and they are only a couple of thousand miles old so the discs aren't that worn, but that inner edge definitely needs cleaning up, I spotted that too when i took the photos. Interestingly the brakes were perfectly balanced on the MOT test.

The docs I looked at also said that for cars with 13" wheels 365 goes on the left and 365A on the right, but for 14" wheels they are awapped over. Nothing about 15" wheels

I didn't realise that there was that much movement to allow castor / camber adjustment for the hub. I'll see how much extra clearance I can force, but it only seems like 1mm, when it's more like 5mm that's needed

[alexperkins]

It's for 14" upwards. Elsa confirms it

The handing is the position of the ball joint on the plate - it isn't much different like you say.

Ah this is the red one

Yeah there a few MM. Movement definitely. Might need a bit of spray to loosen it in the wishbone

[937carrera]

Hmmm, the wishbone has been out, cleaned & I even sprayed a bit of black paint on it when it was out so there's no problem with lack of movement of the ball joint in the plate. I'll have another play tomorrow.

I found a reference in Elsa that confirms that the 92kW engine uses the same parts as the cars with 14" wheels too.

It's a strange one, the parts seems correct but they don't fit correctly, unless I'm being a complete numpty

[937carrera]

I managed to have another look today. There was no further adjustment possible on the ball joint so it's still in the air waiting for inspiration

[alexperkins]

Hmm it doesn't make much sense. I'll have a think

[937carrera]

Well, after lots of thinking and checking how the ball joints looked on my silver one I decided to try EuroCarParts again and ordered the "wrong side", i.e the opposite that I got from them in the first place.

Guess what, when it arrived it was clearly handed and was a doddle to put in with all the right clearances. The conclusion is I had the wrong side because when I ordered the ball joint I didn't know you swapped them side to side depending on wheel size and assumed that when you put your reg in it would select the correct part for the correct side. It doesn't, as I confirmed by looking to place an order for a ball joint for a 1.0 and got the same part choices / description as for the GTi

I'll drop by the guy at GSF tomorrow and let him know what I have found as it looks like their references are wrong.

Another problem fixed.

Bit of a shame the ABS sensor on the same wheel has failed while the car has been in the air , I don't think I have knocked it and the error code comes back immediately.

[alexperkins]

Ha brilliant. Typical parts dealer fail!

That's annoying about the abs sensor. Which one is complaining

[937carrera]

Front left ........... did a scan and looked at the measuring blocks and it's not picking up any wheel motion on that corner when the car is in the air with both front wheels turning. Right hand sensor is picking motion up

[937carrera]

I suppose I should put the ECP part references up for the GTi and 14" wheel cars

Left hand side: 617440448
Right hand side 617440438

13" cars swap the sides over - and I assume the hub is different otherwise it will foul

I have a couple of 617440438 type spares now

[alexperkins]

Odd. Not unusual for the wiring to get damaged and break down on those - might want to check that

Works on a magnetic pulse. Test it with a multimeter whilst rotating the hub on resistance mode


Yes different Hub - integrated carriers