Immobiliser / ABS problems

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937carrera
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Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

I decided to fire up my red GTi a couple of days ago. There were no issues when I first parked her up, one ABS wheel sensor error last time car was started..

Battery had been disconnected but had still gone flat, so hooked up the garage charger (small charge and then boost) and tried to start her up.

ABS light was on, red brake warning light flashing and three long beeps from the console. I have cleared the ABS codes but it keeps coming back with two wheel sensor errors. Is there some functionality that brings on the beep / flashing when more than one sensor has failed ? Do ABS sensors fail so frequently when parked up in a dry garage ?

That's the easy bit. The car started, ran for a couple of seconds and then died. I put the battery on slow charge and returned to the job today. Vagcom scan shows the following.
Chassis Type: 6N2 - VW Polo
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,19,25,35,41,45,46,55

Address 01 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 036 906 033 A
Component: 1.6l/4V SIMOS3 00HS3148
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 00788
1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0110 1101

Address 03 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 6X0 907 379 C
Component: ABS/EDS 30 IE CAN V004
Coding: 15603
Shop #: WSC 00788
2 Faults Found:
00283 - Front Left ABS Wheel Speed Sensor (G47)
35-00 - -
00290 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor: Rear Left (G46)
35-00 - -

Address 25 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0003
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00722
WVWZZZ6NZYY553xyz VWZ1Z0X0252xyz (obfuscated by me)
1 Fault Found:
01176 - Key
07-00 - Signal to Low

End -------------------------------------------------------
I have two keys, both keys obtain the same results. I have also seen error 18058, but that has not come back after removing / checking fuses on top of the battery.

Next step for me is to swap the battery over to a known good one, but I don't think that is the problem.

I think this is related to a failure of the chip reader coil around the ignition key, but before I start tearing things apart I could do with some confirmation of my diagnosis or further checks to do.

Many thanks
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Answering my own question :D :oops:

I swapped the battery over, turned the key and all was good, she's warming up as I type this.

Now, I did tighten the earth connection this time, just to eliminate that as a potential issue, but I am so used to just dropping the earth connection on and off without tightening that I didn't expect that to be the issue. After it's warmed up I'll swap the batteries over again and see if I can recreate the issue..

That just leaves me with the ABS sensors failing when parked up question - grateful for any thoughts on that.
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alexperkins
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by alexperkins »

Yes, the ABS sensors can fail

Unplug and replug the connections under the rear seat as sometimes they get a bit sensitive to sitting still
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Hmm, one step forward, two back.

I swapped the batteries over again. tightened connections No start, same immo problem after 2 secs. Strange, I didn't understand how the electrons in one battery can be different to another :roll:

So, swapped for the good battery again. Same immo problem, followed by cranking with no firing until I clear the error codes. Time for another scan
Control Module Part Number: 036 906 033 A
Component and/or Version: 1.6l/4V SIMOS3 00HS3148
Software Coding: 00031
Work Shop Code: WSC 00788
2 Faults Found:
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster
P1650 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 - -
17978 comes back every time. 18058 less frequently.

I have removed the fuses again, cleaned the ends, contact cleaner in the fuse holders and the connecting plug, checked for voltage at the tips of the fuses when in place and all is OK, 12.72v everywhere- except the immo is stopping it from starting. ps I also put new fuses in, no difference

Seems like a poor connection any suggestion for further tests to do before I consider taking the instrument cluster out. Makes no sense to me as the car has gone nowhere.
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Another step forward. I used the other key and the car fired up. Swapped back and the car fired up, so I decided to look at the measuring blocks for the immobiliser control module 25.

It seems one of the keys is not correctly matched, but once the other key has been used it works OK ??? You can even watch the values in the measuring block change while the car is running. :roll: The good key was on the passenger seat, well away from the reading coil. I looked at http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/I ... locks.html for the measuring blocks, it seems the blocks used are different on the 6N2, 022=002 etc ?.

key number 1 - works fine
MB
001 - 10400 1 1 1
002 - 1 1 1 2
003 - 1 0 1 6
004 - 0.0 0.0 - 0.0
005 - 0 2 2 0000

key number 2 - not matched correctly
MB
001 - 10400 1 0 0
002 - 0 1 0 2
003 - 0 0 0 6
004 - 0.0 0.0 - 0.0
005 - 0.00 2 2 0000

I assume I can recode the key, I will have a search but if someone could point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.

edit: Bit more progress, this page refers to the correct measuring blocks http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.ph ... (Separate)
Bazzad88
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by Bazzad88 »

I don't know if it's going to be much help to you but I had an immobiliser problem on my gti too, it started with the car cutting out occasionally while driving but would restart eventually, it got progressively worse and more often, to the point where the car would fire up for a second and instantly die and then would just crank without firing, I ended up having to get another ecu, immobiliser box and key chip from another gti and this has fixed the problem, I've heard of this happening to a few gti's now so it must be a more common problem than I thought
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks for that, I have seen issues with the coil reader failing, but have found a more fundamental problem.

Nothing to do with computers, key matching or binary bits being lost.

The problem is that my second key does not have the chip in it :roll:

I have spent hours trying to figure out the process for matching a key, getting the 4 digit pin etc, all for nothing, except to avoid other people making the same mistake. Interestingly the second key will work once the car has been started. Not sure if that's correct, but I'm not going to risk that on a journey. I don't believe the chip has been lost in my possession.

I must have only used the main key in the past, or used that first before using the second. So, the tell tale signs are that the first and third fields of measuring blocks 002 and 003 were set to zero likewise field 3 of block 001.

I am now wondering if I can get a key from another car and use that chip to match to my immo 3 unit. I suspect not as I get the feeling it's a one time match for the key chip and I would also need the 4 digit pin code, which "might" be on a sticker somewhere. I would prefer vtwo keys, rather than a full key and an unlock key. Thoughts ?

A picture for amusement :) , or to avoid others making the same mistake.

Image
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alexperkins
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by alexperkins »

You can get a new chip from hickleys then just program the key

Where do you live? I have vag commander and can pull the pin :)
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks very much Alex - I'm in North Yorkshire, so not exactly local to you
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937carrera
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Re: Immobiliser / ABS problems

Post by 937carrera »

Is it the AKK273 that I need (currently out of stock), or is that just the key blank and the chip I need is the "Precode" https://www.hickleys.com/diagnostics/ke ... rt=precode (only if I have the right programmer, which I don't) or the AKTP4 https://www.hickleys.com/diagnostics/ke ... arch=aktp4 which I can use if I get the 4 digit pin ?
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