1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

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Leif
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Leif » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:14 pm

It has the gear indicator on the dashboard of course, and when in fifth and doing 30 mph it does not complain, so I assume it is not labouring. They seem to have fixed the ECU so that you can take your foot off the accelerator and it will trundle along at a constant 30 mph in fifth. The rpm is just over 1,000. But I don't want to risk damage to the engine.

It is high geared, as you say. It might annoy some but for a sedate (but not slow) driver like me it's fine. I think they do this to help improve mpg at the expense of a sporty feel. My Up was not high geared and was more perky despite having much less power.

Andy Beats
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Andy Beats » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:21 pm

Leif wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:14 pm
It is high geared, as you say. It might annoy some but for a sedate (but not slow) driver like me it's fine. I think they do this to help improve mpg at the expense of a sporty feel.
Unfortunately, the theory that high gearing is good for MPG doesn't always work.
As I and others on here have noted, the high gearing means town driving needs more revs and larger throttle openings than would normally be required, adversely affecting MPG.

Leif
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Leif » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 pm

Andy Beats wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:21 pm
Leif wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:14 pm
It is high geared, as you say. It might annoy some but for a sedate (but not slow) driver like me it's fine. I think they do this to help improve mpg at the expense of a sporty feel.
Unfortunately, the theory that high gearing is good for MPG doesn't always work.
As I and others on here have noted, the high gearing means town driving needs more revs and larger throttle openings than would normally be required, adversely affecting MPG.
I have to disagree with that, it seems fine to me when driving round the local town in third and fourth mostly. Have you tried the VW Connect app?

Andy Beats
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Andy Beats » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:20 pm

Leif wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 pm
I have to disagree with that, it seems fine to me when driving round the local town in third and fourth mostly. Have you tried the VW Connect app?
It's more the ultra-high first gear, which is more like second in any other car.
Obviously you use that more often in town.
You need far more revs and clutch slip to get going than you would in a car with a lower first gear, which adversely affects MPG.
It's like VW have geared the car to be a M-way cruiser, but who buys a 95bhp petrol to do that.....?
I find the app very confusing, it seems to only work when you're in the car and not away from the car?
My Leaf app used to work outside the car too, albeit via 3G so it could be a bit slow.

Andy Beats
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Andy Beats » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:48 pm

I'm still pretty convinced a (good quality) tuning box will improve my MPG.
I just feel more power and torque = less throttle and revs needed = more MPG.
I just need to get around to buying one and fitting it.

silverhairs
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by silverhairs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:56 pm

If you do fit one, tell the insurance company, else you won't be covered. I had to tell them I ha fitted a tow ball.

Leif
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Leif » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Andy Beats wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:20 pm
Leif wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:51 pm
I have to disagree with that, it seems fine to me when driving round the local town in third and fourth mostly. Have you tried the VW Connect app?
It's more the ultra-high first gear, which is more like second in any other car.
Obviously you use that more often in town.
You need far more revs and clutch slip to get going than you would in a car with a lower first gear, which adversely affects MPG.
It's like VW have geared the car to be a M-way cruiser, but who buys a 95bhp petrol to do that.....?
I find the app very confusing, it seems to only work when you're in the car and not away from the car?
My Leaf app used to work outside the car too, albeit via 3G so it could be a bit slow.
Yes the first gear is high. I see you are in Aberdeen, that will explain some lower mpg. :D The app works okay on my iPhone, though it used to crash a lot. I think they fixed that with an update.

Muldoon
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Muldoon » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:50 am

Not sure how a tuning box can improve MPG by producing more power - power = petrol used, although I can see the argument for a big increase in torque making more thrust available for easier driving. I would be worried about the clutch which is the weak link in the equation.

Ideally it needs a new gearbox with sensible ratios to transform the car. My next one might be Automatic to just escape the constant swapping between 1st and 2nd in town.

I don't mind small cars with responsive engines and low gearing where you work the gearbox which can be fun to maintain progress. The Polo feels like a larger heavy car with unresponsive gears and a small engine which only has power in certain situations - an odd mix but I can see how VW are trying to have their cake and eat it by achieving economy with a performance solution in the turbo. It's just the gears which seem to spoil the set up and are poorly matched.

I can't imagine what the 60ps non TSI models are like to drive? :shock: There are some bargains around for nearly new models with the 60ps engine but they must be impossible to keep any momentum going.

Adam_013
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Adam_013 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:58 am

Agree with above.

My older TDi polo mapped to approx 95hp with the lower geared box made progress easy. I know it's a diesel but still geared low, especially in comparison to my current one.

The clutch is the only factor which is stopping me from getting mine mapped. Same as 'Andy Beats' not so much for speed, but some added torque and drivability.

At the moment when in a steep incline or something similar the clutch burns now. Add another 60-70nm and I can't imagine it getting any better...

There is someone who has had their Polo mapped to 130 I think on here, and has nothing to report yet.

I'd wonder how the 6spd box available with the 115 would be with the 95ps. Would the extra ratio mean the rest are lower?

It's a shame that such thing which we can't change ruins the car.



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RUM4MO
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by RUM4MO » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:29 am

I can see the logic behind adding a tuning box or even a remap could improve drivability and MPG under some conditions, ie if you did not use all the extra power/torque added, as it might move that car closer to what might be called the "sweet spot" for economy in real life use - I would not think that WLTP is moving the testing regime much closer to how most of us use our cars, it is just an official method of testing that can be more easily repeated than the previous "tell us what MPG numbers you want us to use" - if it is even that in reality as most of it is still done in-house.

Andy Beats
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Andy Beats » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:42 am

Muldoon wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:50 am
Not sure how a tuning box can improve MPG by producing more power - power = petrol used,
It's not as simple as less power = less fuel and more power = more fuel though.
There comes a point at which less power struggles to shift the car and the engine needs pushed hard.
Whereas a larger engine would manage it easily and sip fuel.
Obviously I'm not saying fitting the Polo with a 4.0 V8 would give me better MPG, but you get the jist.
I've had cars with more than double the power of my Polo give better MPG, simply because you could tickle the throttle in them and still move rapidly.
Tickle the throttle in the Polo and milk floats would go past you.
Last edited by Andy Beats on Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adam_013
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Adam_013 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:45 am

Indeed. Same applied to previous car.

The added power meant that getting upto speed was quicker, smoother and less throttle input. And once it was there it'd have no issue staying there.

I was able to get from BSE to Bristol, drive around for the week and get back on a tank. Never before hand.
Andy Beats wrote:
Muldoon wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:50 am
Not sure how a tuning box can improve MPG by producing more power - power = petrol used,
It's not as simple as less power = less fuel and more power = more fuel though.
There comes a point at which less power struggles to shift the car and the engine needs pushed hard.
Whereas a larger engine would manage it easily and sip fuel.
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Muldoon
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Muldoon » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:32 am

Agree with the replies, some good points. I think the old saying goes "there is no substitute for horses" - I don't think the Polo has hit the sweet spot due to weight, engine with narrow power and torque band in part due to 3 cylinder running and need to keep in the boost zone, plus odd gear ratios. I remember back in the 1990's when 95bhp would secure you a pocket rocket (E.G. Citroen Saxo / 205 XS etc) but those were featherweights in comparison.

My guess is a similar N/A 1.5 engine (perhaps 4 cylinder) with normal ratios would provide just the same amount of performance, economy and drive-ability.

The 1.0 3 cylinder turbo engines were seen as the magic solution for all manufacturer a few years back when they started to appear, they probably have their limitations and weak spots. It's a shame it presents itself so clearly in low speed driving when you appreciate easy performance and useable power the most. I'm not sure how the Fiesta Ecoboost or Corsa 1.0 engines compare but they could be far better with a different gearbox.

Re the Gov economy tests - they are all fiction - I prefer driveable performance over massive economy as why own a car and try to scrape 65 mpg out of it which involves changing up early and borderline labouring the engine? May as well buy a Honda Jazz.

joe6
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by joe6 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:35 am

My daughter's Leon 1.4 with 150bhp never seems to drop below 40mpg even in stop start traffic. Seems that VW have got power to weight ratio totally wrong with the 1.0 polo. I do better in my 2016 GTI most of the time than figures quoted in this thread (between 36 and 44mpg) much the same as the mk6 Golf GTI.

Andy Beats
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Re: 1.0tsi (95bhp) MPG

Post by Andy Beats » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:12 pm

I was going to go for the new style Micra before spotting the Polo, they have a 'Bose' edition which I like.
It also has a three cylinder turbocharged 1.0 petrol engine, sourced from Renault.
I'd be interested to see how it drives compared with the Polo.

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