New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

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callumensor
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New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by callumensor »

Hi Everyone,
Early doors just yet but what are people hoping/expecting to do to their new polos mods wise.
Also very interested to hear what kind of remap figures people would be expecting given its 2.0L lump?
Have a great day guys
barrywi
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by barrywi »

I would like to convert my Gti + from being a picture on my iPad to a metal object on my drive. Come on South Africa get on with it! :mrgreen:
Garjen
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by Garjen »

barrywi wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:49 pm I would like to convert my Gti + from being a picture on my iPad to a metal object on my drive. Come on South Africa get on with it! :mrgreen:
Hahahah

My beats is taking an age to get from s.a .With all the profit VW make can't they use DHL overnight rather than sea 6 weeks🤔
Afterall Ain't no mountain high enough.
monkeyhanger
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by monkeyhanger »

The German final inspection is necessary to avoid a big importation bill on a car that has been made outside the EU - so that VW can claim it was part manufactured within the EU. Transport by ship is very cheap compared to other modes (driving a fleet of transporters up Africa and through Europe, all the way to Emden port via Wolfsburg).

As for mods to the GTI, there's a few things to consider - mainly Turbo and clutch. It's highly likely that the Polo GTI will come with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf GTI. The Golf GTI comes with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf R.

When you add a remap or tune box, the torque usually goes way up along with the power, with the clutch potentially struggling to cope.

I used to have a MK7 Golf GTD, and had it remapped -completely transformed the car: 500Nm and 240PS (or thereabouts). The GTD clutch can take it. I moved to a Golf R, and although i'd love to get it up to 370PS, and about 450Nm with a tuning box, the clutch won't take it. A very high proportion of retuned GTIs and Rs have clutch slip. The DSG box is proving more resilient to the power increase, although this may be due to the torque limiter reining gains back in at times of mechanical stress.

Can't wait for VW to put the manual GTI+ up for ordering.
Dan34
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by Dan34 »

The manual clutch on the Golf R's is like chocolate, it'll start slipping on a stock car let alone a tuned one.

DSG in the Polo should cope with most stage 1 maps or tuning boxes i'd imagine. Plus you could always get a DSG tune too and up the clamping force of the clutches.
monkeyhanger
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by monkeyhanger »

^ My manual R is holding up at stock. Most stock clutch failures have been due to lubricant leaks on the friction plates, but they do appear to have been specced "just enough" for stock torque - GTI upgraders in stock R territory for power but higher torque have clutch slip, so seems to be torque increase and not power increase causing it.

DSG isn't an option for me or i'd have ordered a Polo GTI+ already to replace the wife's 3 door A1 (need a 5 door 2nd car) - I hate DSG with a passion, that 5% of the time it does something you wouldn't have done in a manual annoys me too much to live with a DSG, suffer worse actual fuel economy (despite what the offcial figures say) and pay £1450 for the privilege.
Garjen
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by Garjen »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:37 pm The German final inspection is necessary to avoid a big importation bill on a car that has been made outside the EU - so that VW can claim it was part manufactured within the EU. Transport by ship is very cheap compared to other modes (driving a fleet of transporters up Africa and through Europe, all the way to Emden port via Wolfsburg).

As for mods to the GTI, there's a few things to consider - mainly Turbo and clutch. It's highly likely that the Polo GTI will come with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf GTI. The Golf GTI comes with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf R.

When you add a remap or tune box, the torque usually goes way up along with the power, with the clutch potentially struggling to cope.

I used to have a MK7 Golf GTD, and had it remapped -completely transformed the car: 500Nm and 240PS (or thereabouts). The GTD clutch can take it. I moved to a Golf R, and although i'd love to get it up to 370PS, and about 450Nm with a tuning box, the clutch won't take it. A very high proportion of retuned GTIs and Rs have clutch slip. The DSG box is proving more resilient to the power increase, although this may be due to the torque limiter reining gains back in at times of mechanical stress.

Can't wait for VW to put the manual GTI+ up for ordering.
Ahhhhhh that makes more sense re the transport via Germany. I just hope for a fast turnaround.
barrywi
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by barrywi »

The new Polo Gti has the six speed wet clutch dsg and I believe the last one was a seven speed dsg with a dry clutch system. My friend has an Audi A6 two litre diesel seven speed dsg s tronic which is just coming to the end of a three year contract. He is thinking about actually buying the car to keep as it is immaculate and low miles. Any comments on a comparison between wet and dry clutch dsgs re longevity and ability to cope with more power?
fazzy
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by fazzy »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:37 pm
As for mods to the GTI, there's a few things to consider - mainly Turbo and clutch. It's highly likely that the Polo GTI will come with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf GTI. The Golf GTI comes with a smaller turbo than that on the Golf R.

When you add a remap or tune box, the torque usually goes way up along with the power, with the clutch potentially struggling to cope.
Instead of starting a new thread, I wonder if anybody has since done anything to their GTIs, or has anybody researched the matter further?
Since getting any information from a dealer is like next to impossible, I have no solid info at this time, but just wondering about the hardware... Indeed the Golf GTI has a smaller turbo than the Golf R - IS20 vs IS38, but the only smaller turbo in the line-up is the IS18, which was in the previous 1,8 Polo Gti.
I suspect that the current Polo Gti is running the same IS20 turbo as in the Golf GTi, especially since already there is tuning boxes available for the car and one of the suppliers is talking about a power hike up to 263HP (193kW).
https://www.ptronic.com/performance-chi ... rettyPhoto

Another one is claiming 233HP (171kW)...
https://www.chiptuning.com/en/vw/polo-a ... ntrol.html

I don't have access to ETKA... that would help in determining which turbo, which injectors, what fuel pump is used and how they differ to Golf GTi.
Without that info or part numbers, the rest is just a guessing game at this stage.
monkeyhanger
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by monkeyhanger »

Someone here was in discussion with Burger tuning in the USA to see if a JB1 or JB4 unit was in the eorks. They'd been developing and decided that the safe upper limit on existing hardware was about 240ps, due to the Polo GTI having a much smaller intercooler than the Golf

That ptronic website looks a joke - they claim that their box is untraceable and increases engine reliability. VW have been able to trace tuning boxes for new revision since the facelift Golf 7 came in, the Polo will have flags or implausible values that will indicate that a tuning box has been on. Quite expensive too (justified if that is paying for a drivetrain insurance policy (not sure that it is).

Given my GTI+ broke traction under 2/3 throttle at 50mph on a bone dry road at 11.5C yesterday - those Bridgestones on Brescia wheels can't handle 200ps.
fazzy
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by fazzy »

Bearing in mind that the Polo GTi is not available in the US, let's bear in mind that their decision on a "safe upper limit" due to hardware is pure guess and paper work. Anyway... push comes to shove, the intercooler can be changed in a day.
I am more curious what is the part numbers of the injectors on the Polo GTi and Golf GTi.
Can anybody help with that?
I have a Chiptronic box ready for the Polo and as soon as the car arrives, that box is going in. Only then will I be able to dyno the car and have real figures.
After that, it will be pretty simple to see it the box is traceable. I have been using boxes for quite a while now and till now none have been traceable. Whether that has changed, we'll see. Anything is possible. If that is the case, then we'll have to download the original maps and then upload it to the ECU before going in for a service. Pesky, I would say... but possible.
I don't know this ptronic website... personally I don't think that this number is attainable not due to the intercooler, but rather the safety margin features on the original software. Nevertheless, I wrote an email to them asking for real dyno scan (not bmp picture made in Paint, like I received from Schnitzer several years ago) We'll see it they respond at all... :)
As far as tyres are concerned... nobody is convicted for life to s**t tyres and they CAN be changed :)
monkeyhanger
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by monkeyhanger »

fazzy wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:12 pm Bearing in mind that the Polo GTi is not available in the US, let's bear in mind that their decision on a "safe upper limit" due to hardware is pure guess and paper work. Anyway... push comes to shove, the intercooler can be changed in a day.
I am more curious what is the part numbers of the injectors on the Polo GTi and Golf GTi.
Can anybody help with that?
I have a Chiptronic box ready for the Polo and as soon as the car arrives, that box is going in. Only then will I be able to dyno the car and have real figures.
After that, it will be pretty simple to see it the box is traceable. I have been using boxes for quite a while now and till now none have been traceable. Whether that has changed, we'll see. Anything is possible. If that is the case, then we'll have to download the original maps and then upload it to the ECU before going in for a service. Pesky, I would say... but possible.
I don't know this ptronic website... personally I don't think that this number is attainable not due to the intercooler, but rather the safety margin features on the original software. Nevertheless, I wrote an email to them asking for real dyno scan (not bmp picture made in Paint, like I received from Schnitzer several years ago) We'll see it they respond at all... :)
As far as tyres are concerned... nobody is convicted for life to s**t tyres and they CAN be changed :)
From what I read on the relevant thread, I think Burger's imposed limit was based on them trialling a physical unit and deciding that the cooling system couldn't cope with a higher output, even though they had got about 265ps out of it.

The tyre comment was just a heads up - if you intend driving the car relatively hard at stock only, you'll want a change.

Detecting remap (even after flashing back, because the flash count has increased) or tuning boxes (due to implausible readings across multiple sensors beyond those which the tuning boxes modify the signals on) is easy enough for the dealerships to do now. Whether they are determined enough to look that hard if you've brought the car in for anything not related to the drivetrain is another thing.
fazzy
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by fazzy »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:52 pm From what I read on the relevant thread, I think Burger's imposed limit was based on them trialling a physical unit and deciding that the cooling system couldn't cope with a higher output, even though they had got about 265ps out of it.

The tyre comment was just a heads up - if you intend driving the car relatively hard at stock only, you'll want a change.

Detecting remap (even after flashing back, because the flash count has increased) or tuning boxes (due to implausible readings across multiple sensors beyond those which the tuning boxes modify the signals on) is easy enough for the dealerships to do now. Whether they are determined enough to look that hard if you've brought the car in for anything not related to the drivetrain is another thing.
Thanks for the info. Do you have any links to that thread? Would be interesting to read, although my mind is already trying to sort out the cooling problem, if indeed there is one, even though I am still a few months before the delivery of the car itself :)
Any problem can be sorted out. I remember when I slapped a T3/T4 on a ABF in a CitiGolf back in 1998 and was told that it won't work :) Apparently nothing is impossible ;)

Tyres, I ordered the 18" Brescias, so we'll see what will come with the car.
End of the day, after the run-in period I never cared for the factory guarantee, so I guess I'll start off with a box and then we'll see if there is a need to go further :) Afterall, that is the reason why I joined this particular discussion :) If anybody is worried about loosing their guarantee, then modding is obviously not for them :)
Adam_013
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by Adam_013 »

I also read somewhere about cooling issues when they've been turned up. Believe it was the intake temperatures creeping up due to the smaller intercooler fitted... I may be talking utter crap, but believe that's what I read.

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fazzy
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Re: New Polo GTI Mods Discussion

Post by fazzy »

Adam_013 wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:29 pm I also read somewhere about cooling issues when they've been turned up. Believe it was the intake temperatures creeping up due to the smaller intercooler fitted... I may be talking utter crap, but believe that's what I read.

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No, not at all - you are right. Intake temperature will go up as the turbo boost goes up. Imagine a bicycle pump as you pump up a wheel, the pump becomes hotter. Simple physics :) As you compress the air, the temperature of that air goes up and that is the purpose of an intercooler to bring the temperature of the compressed air down.The bigger the intercooler, the bigger the drop in temperature of the compressed air. However, the bigger the intercooler, the bigger the volume of intake system between the turbo and the throttle body, resulting in bigger turbo lag.

Does anybody know what is the actual turbo boost out of the factory?
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