Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

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monkeyhanger
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by monkeyhanger » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:18 pm

There's speculation, because there is room to speculate from the article, as the drag-race terms appear to be loose and part of a very poorly designed comparison.

If you know anything about experiment design and validation, you'll know to eliminate as many variables as you can to offer a fair comparison and make the drag race about which car is the quickest, all other things being equal (such as tyre brand, wheel size, driver aptitude), rather than which car/tyre/driver combination is the quickest.


My speculation is based on interpretation of experience and known facts (as I did explain in my post above).


All the contenders, with the exception of the Polo have been available longer than literally the few weeks that RHD Polo GTI started arriving in the UK. It is therefore pretty safe to assume that the GTI is the youngest car there by some margin, and quite possibly not fully run in yet.By run-in, i'm not just talking the 620 mile run-in program (which I have experienced first hand when running in 2 new MK7 Golfs and the newer of my 2 Sciroccos before that - the difference is very noticeable), but over the course of the first 15k miles, the car has loosened up noticeably.

I've had 8 VAG cars from new, and have been unfortunate enough to have had 3 of them come on Bridgestones. I know first hand how poor the traction is on Bridgestone rubber (regardless of VW model), with rampant tramping, even on the current MK7 Golf GTD and GTI (non-PP - the LSD does a good job at eliminating tramping), with which the Polo GTI shares its chassis architecture - and the Golf variants have significantly more power or torque on tap, so should be worse for tramping than the Polo on same size wheels. I also know that on every other brand of tyre that VW offer as OEM (Dunlop SP01, Pirelli P7, Contisport 5), tramping does not happen in the dry, nothing more than a slight chirp of the tyres, even under launch control. We also know that most (if not all) recipients of a new UK RHD GTI on 18" Brescias on this forum have had Bridgestone tyres. For those reasons, it seems highly likely that We have a Bridgestone equipped car.

Traction plays a huge part in 0-62 times. If you look in the Audi brochures for 2WD and Quattro variants of the same car/engine/output, you'll consistently see 0.7s advantage with the Quattro, So faultless traction gives a 0.7s advantage vs average 2WD traction. So what's the difference between great 2WD traction and poor 2WD traction? It will be in the region of around 1 second.

That article implies that poor initial traction is an inherent Polo trait. Given that it isn't a trait of the Golf GTI/GTD unless sat on Bridgestones, a learned person may be able to deduce that the same is highly likely for the Polo GTI.

I'm not looking out of rose tinted glasses and saying that the Polo GTI should've conquered all in that drag race, the stats alone would suggest that the Yaris and Mini should beat all else there by some margin. Look on any Mini forecourt and you'll see that OEM Mini tyres are generally Pirelli or Continentals, certainly not Bridgestones, you don't generally see them on Fords either, and higher performing Peugeots usually get Michelins.

The Golf is certainly more of a jack of all trades on lower output in standard form than many of its peers, even the track focussed 310PS CSS couldn't outdo the Honda Civic (which didn't need to be stripped out to cut weight and achieve the ring title for that class of car). I can live with a comfy Golf that is very good at everything rather than great at one thing. I expect the Polo to be the same, but realistically, on decent rubber, i'd expect it to comfortably get away from the slightly asthmatic new ST (3-cyl and less torque) and Peugeot 208 GTI.

It would take very little effort to design a drag race in the pouring rain that would see a stock Golf GTI outdo a Porsche 911 if the Golf had something with outstanding wet grip and the Porsche's shoes were very slippy in the wet- just to make a sensationalised story.

silverhairs
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by silverhairs » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm

Good post, but what tyres would or do you recommend for 95/115 Polo's and for the GTI polo?

roywolfey
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by roywolfey » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:55 pm

And now carwow drag race of VW Polo GTI vs exclusively VW Hot hatches: https://youtu.be/7OVr7eWSex8 ☺️

silverhairs
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by silverhairs » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:15 pm

But what tyres do members with Polo's recommend for the Polo :?:

roywolfey
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by roywolfey » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:50 pm

silverhairs wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:15 pm
But what tyres do members with Polo's recommend for the Polo :?:
Standard tyres.. My GTI+ on 17” Parkers came with Michelin Primacy 3’s which is a tyre I rate and have fitted to my previous Eos V6 by choice. You also get a good degree of rim protection with the Primacy 3s. The primacy 4s being not so good for rim protection.

There’s been a bit of debate over Kumhos, a Japanese brand which are standard fit to Polos but I also rate these too and have a set fitted to my campervan.

It’s subjective I know, but I’d be more than happy with the Michelins or Kumhos

Leif
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by Leif » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:58 pm

Quite what relevance this has to cars driven on public roads is beyond me. How often do people do drag races on public roads? If that is how you drive, then you are a menace. Surely you want something that drives well, and is comfortable and economical. And safe in the wet. Just choose which of the Golf, Polo and Up hot hatch versions suits your needs best. I might have bought a Polo GTI if I wasn’t doing high mileage.

Leif
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Re: Carwow dragrace polo gti vs hothatches

Post by Leif » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:07 pm

roywolfey wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:50 pm
There’s been a bit of debate over Kumhos, a Japanese brand which are standard fit to Polos but I also rate these too and have a set fitted to my campervan.

It’s subjective I know, but I’d be more than happy with the Michelins or Kumhos
I had some Kumho kh27s on my VW Up. After four weeks I went round a very large roundabout and skidded off onto the grass verge after doing a 180 degree spin. The road was damp and i assumed it was oil on the road. I was lucky not to write off several other cars. A few weeks later I was going at a modest speed round a small roundabout, also damp, behind several other cars, and again I lost the rear end. This time I knew how to recover from the skid, and regained control. I got rid of the nearly new tyres and put on some Michelin’s. In 20 years driving I’ve only ever skidded twice in the wet, both times were on those nearly new Kumho. I will never again buy that brand of tyres. The ones I had had zero sideways grip in the wet. They were downright dangerous and not fit for sale. I tried to contact Kumho to complain, but there was no way to do so. I now stick to premium tyres. Yes they can be overpriced, but at least they don’t sell s**t that could cause a multi car pile up. And quite why people buy cheap Chinese Di Yung tyres is beyond me.

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