Ridiculous condensation

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Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

A tyre company makes a video where they:

1. Evidently switch off any stability control
2. Drive at excessive speeds and make exaggerated steering inputs

In an effort to try and make you buy more tyres.....

Quel surprise. :D
Look, it's quite simple, if people want to fit four winter tyres - all power to them.
But I've had no issues at all fitting two only in decades of NE Scotland snow driving, none at all.
And until it's law to fit four at a time (or none at all), I'll stick to this.
david.stark
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by david.stark »

Any result that does not favour your preference is always wrong of course.

It really is more by luck than judgment. 4 winter tyres are far more stable and safe and that’s a fact.
Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

david.stark wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:50 pm
It really is more by luck than judgment. 4 winter tyres are far more stable and safe and that’s a fact.
Of course they are, not denying that at all.
There's no such thing as luck, it's an abstract concept, it's woo-woo
So it clearly is judgement that we haven't overstepped the grip of the rears and spun into a ditch for decades.
david.stark
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by david.stark »

Woo-woo? :lol:

Digressing here massively but what about the bloke who forgot his computer on 9/11 and went back home for it and subsequently missed the carnage?

If luck doesn’t exist, is this fate? He was always meant to forget it on that day?

*shudders at the thought of that scenario!
Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

david.stark wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:13 pm Woo-woo? :lol:

Digressing here massively but what about the bloke who forgot his computer on 9/11 and went back home for it and subsequently missed the carnage?

If luck doesn’t exist, is this fate? He was always meant to forget it on that day?

*shudders at the thought of that scenario!
I'm not getting drawn into a philosophical debate :D
Suffice to say it's pure bunkum to attribute our perfectly safe driving for decades on two winter tyres as 'luck'
That's just something people say to make themselves feel better, like when I win football bets and others don't - it's lazy to say I'm 'lucky' when I'm actually using skill and judgement better than theirs.
It's clearly our perfectly sensible driving that means we've been fine.
david.stark
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by david.stark »

It's not pure bunkum in the sense I meant it. Careful driving is crucial, that much is true but I meant it's lucky or perhaps judgment in some cases on your part that you have not encountered conditions that cannot be countered by skill. (Extreme hypothetical example would be driving a Ferrari in heavy snow on summer tyres - Drive carefully all you like, you aren't getting far as the conditions are beyond skill)

At some point, snow must have started falling heavier while you were out and about. You got home ok or to work ok and put that down to 2 winter tyres and skill/sensible driving. You were lucky it did not get any worse because the snow would eventually have outdone your careful driving, especially if turning on hills.

Or a much more obvious version, you were lucky something didn't run out in front of you at close quarters because dodging it would lead to the back end sliding without the necessary grip.

To turn the tables on me with 4 winter tyres, if I was up in the Peak District and made it home in the snow, I would consider myself lucky despite skill and tyres. Lucky as in if it had fallen any heavier, I'd have needed the ground clearance and traction of a 4x4 in order to get through.
Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

david.stark wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:58 pm It's not pure bunkum in the sense I meant it. Careful driving is crucial, that much is true but I meant it's lucky or perhaps judgment in some cases on your part that you have not encountered conditions that cannot be countered by skill. (Extreme hypothetical example would be driving a Ferrari in heavy snow on summer tyres - Drive carefully all you like, you aren't getting far as the conditions are beyond skill)

At some point, snow must have started falling heavier while you were out and about. You got home ok or to work ok and put that down to 2 winter tyres and skill/sensible driving. You were lucky it did not get any worse because the snow would eventually have outdone your careful driving, especially if turning on hills.

Or a much more obvious version, you were lucky something didn't run out in front of you at close quarters because dodging it would lead to the back end sliding without the necessary grip.

To turn the tables on me with 4 winter tyres, if I was up in the Peak District and made it home in the snow, I would consider myself lucky despite skill and tyres. Lucky as in if it had fallen any heavier, I'd have needed the ground clearance and traction of a 4x4 in order to get through.
It's actually really, really hard to get the back end sliding in snow, even on summer tyres.
I know because I enjoy oversteer and try and provoke it to happen, when I've room to do so of course.
Even if you can get them to unstick, you've got to have switched off any stability control or that will pull it all back in line with no drama.
Putting the question back at you, would you rather people on limited budgets just struggled on using summers in snow, rather than only fit two winters?
Surely some are better than none?
RUM4MO
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by RUM4MO »

I can only speak from my and my wife's experiences in using cars in winter in an area where most of the time very little effort is set aside to keep roads clear other than the main commuter sections, this being made worse by the local authority being located quite near sea level and 90% of the roads used in this region being a lot higher than that. So, no snow on the ground at HQ means things have to go badly wrong before any recovery action is authorised!

I always survived in the past without using winter tyres, better so with my VX Cav GSI 4X4 and my VW Passat 4Motion - then as the climate changed slightly the type of snow and ambient temperature profiles changed, and local authorities started ignoring snow clearing a bit, suddenly my wife was having difficulties, probably reporting more close encounters with her loosing grip and others getting it wrong and she just managing to avoid being involved, so I ordered in steel wheels fitted with Michelin Alpins, and her daily commute to work winter experience improved dramatically while still witnessing cars exiting the road left and right of her. That situation continued with one car on winters and one 4WD car on summers for another almost 2 years, then I found that too often I could not drive down my driveway on return from work due to very slight defrosting and immediate refreezing turning the driveway into a ice flow, so I too ended up on a set of Michelin Alpins on a second set of wheels. One other thing that was evolving round about that time was, modern premium Summer tyres were being further optimised for Summer only use, luckily I had discovered this before the local Costco tyre place asked the question "you don't plan to use them in winter" when getting a couple of new Michelin Exalto fitted! So for me, it was not just following a new trend, it was finding that I needed to do that or find lots of excuses for not using our cars when the weather had turned nasty and road services were not doing their job, also, in our case, a long steep driveway that just could not always be kept clear of snow and ice followed by a short piece of road in our small estate followed by a very hilly/bendy section of road - all of these under good road clearing times would be low priority so if not making sure we were equipped with the right tyres, we would need to do quite a bit of walking - but only when the bus services had been re-established - my wife was a teacher and no parent (and that included us) needs to find out that due to staff not being able to get to work the school is closed. I similarly had a job where I was expected to turn up every day as I had done for lots of years, so having the right tyres helped me achieve that. Even on your own driveway, you can only clear so much snow and lay down so much salt.

On another note, most people that do not and will never spend money on winter tyres, really really really do tend to despise people that do - and mainly claim that fitting winter tyres just means that you think that you are smarter than the average joe and will end up in trouble as you drive around as you would in summer time, for anyone that I know that fits full set of winter tyres, that is complete nonsense. Lots of people will live in an area where buying and fitting winter tyres will make no sense, on the odd nasty day they can phone in sick or take public transport, but a large part of UK does not have reliable and frequent public transport systems in place for summer use never mind winter use - and in modern UK very few people live close to where they work, and not by choice!

In conclusion, if you could wind the clock back to when summer tyres worked as almost all season tyres and snow fall was predictable and road clearing was up to expectations, then very very few people would need to fit and use winter tyres - but we are were we are!

Out of curiosity, Andy Beats, how long in miles is your daily commute to work as that is where we normally need our winter tyres to work, weekends can be handled differently?
Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

RUM4MO wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:54 am Out of curiosity, Andy Beats, how long in miles is your daily commute to work as that is where we normally need our winter tyres to work, weekends can be handled differently?
My commute is 5 miles each way from a village at the top of a hill that tends to get snow before most, down to lower ground.
My wife is self-employed and does more daytime driving than me.
Her 2 x front winters are going on her Sportage today, actually.
Got a bargain with those, her wheels are 19" and would cost a fortune new.
I got a pair of barely used Pirelli winters for £120, off a Tesla.
RUM4MO
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by RUM4MO »

Good to know that Tesla uses wheel/tyre sizes that are available in winter tyres, you never know when I might end up with a Tesla S, I can keep saving!

5 miles is quite a short commute, you are lucky, 5 miles only gets me to start of hopefully cleared roads, I've been diverted through town rather than working my way round town many times in winter and braking on city hills on cobbled roads is no fun without a full set of winter tyres, prior to using a full set of winter tyres I stayed lucky and I understood that.
SRGTD
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by SRGTD »

I keep checking this thread expecting to see what the cause and resolution was for the condensation and damp carpet problem that david.stark was experiencing in his car, and the discussion has now switched completely to winter tyres for the last 1.5 pages.

Winter tyres is a very worthy discussion topic especially at this time of year, and on occasion it’s very easy to go off topic (I’m also as guilty as anyone else of doing this!), but isn’t it time to change the discussion thread title to include reference to winter tyres, or start a new, separate ‘Winter Tyres’ discussion thread?
david.stark
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by david.stark »

Fair point. I created a winter tyres topic in the chassis section.
Andy Beats
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Andy Beats »

On the subject of condensation, I've bought myself another PINGI condensation pad to leave in the car.
Only £7 delivered.
Seemed to help in my Leaf, they're notorious for misting at the drop of a hat.
RUM4MO
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by RUM4MO »

david.stark wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:00 am Fair point. I created a winter tyres topic in the chassis section.
I spotted that thread, but I'm not too sure if that section catches many people's attention, maybe better to post directly into this section for views/comments from people with the same car.

Some forums have a "tyres" section but just like "which fuel is best to use", topics like "which tyres to buy" and "winter tyres" does bring the worst out of lots of us!

Now back to condensation!
Muldoon
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Re: Ridiculous condensation

Post by Muldoon »

Bump - any updates on the dampness? Was the leak located? Not bothered about tyre talk :)

I'm watching the temperature drop over the past week and preparing for the inevitable frost and de-icing routine - not that hopeful based on current cold mornings and instant misting up of the windscreen might suggest the demister and heater are not brilliant performers.

Why no standard heated windscreen :cry:

Just re the heater - anyone else noticed the temperature gauge doesn't move at all unless you drive it hard, any idling or pootering about and coasting downhill it stays at 50 degrees (although probably there is heat somewhere in the system). Might be due to where the sensor is located - if you give it some beans on the motorway after a few seconds it's shooting up to 90 degrees.
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