Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

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Adam_013
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Adam_013 »

Ah right, that's good to hear. Perhaps I'll have to splash some cash and get it done!
DaveNI1979 wrote:
Adam_013 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:33 pm
DaveNI1979 wrote:Got mine done yesterday, bhp is up to 130 now. Nice to have that bit of extra power. But was wondering for insurance and stuff like that are you supposed tell them? Ive currently done 3k miles next service is 18k, great little car. 0-60 in just under 9 seconds lol.
Looking at getting mine done - also to approx 130hp. Interested to see how you get on with any clutch slippage, or anything else.. I'd assume as long as you don't drive around like a melon all the time, it'd be fine.. my previous 1.4tdi 9n3 did start to slip when that was mapped, but it was on 110k on the original clutch anyway and it was iffy before hand [emoji23]

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Yeah no clutch slippage at all, very smooth through the gears still, only with more pulling power if that makes sense. Cars ready to go when needed. I dont drive flat out anyway, it mainly helps for passing more safely at 40-60 mph. They spent 2 hrs doin the remapping wasnt some amateur using a laptop. Autotune NI ballymena was place I went too.

mpg is around still around 50 btw, and thats around country roads where i live. Im glad I got it done had been thinking about it for a while.
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monkeyhanger
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by monkeyhanger »

DaveNI1979 wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:42 pm
Adam_013 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:33 pm
DaveNI1979 wrote:Got mine done yesterday, bhp is up to 130 now. Nice to have that bit of extra power. But was wondering for insurance and stuff like that are you supposed tell them? Ive currently done 3k miles next service is 18k, great little car. 0-60 in just under 9 seconds lol.
Looking at getting mine done - also to approx 130hp. Interested to see how you get on with any clutch slippage, or anything else.. I'd assume as long as you don't drive around like a melon all the time, it'd be fine.. my previous 1.4tdi 9n3 did start to slip when that was mapped, but it was on 110k on the original clutch anyway and it was iffy before hand [emoji23]

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Yeah no clutch slippage at all, very smooth through the gears still, only with more pulling power if that makes sense. Cars ready to go when needed. I dont drive flat out anyway, it mainly helps for passing more safely at 40-60 mph. They spent 2 hrs doin the remapping wasnt some amateur using a laptop. Autotune NI ballymena was place I went too.

mpg is around still around 50 btw, and thats around country roads where i live. Im glad I got it done had been thinking about it for a while.
So did you get a remap or a tuning box? 2 hours seems a long time to fit and tinker with a tuning box. If it is a remap, will they flash back to standard for dealership visits, or put the map back on if a service update wipes it?

If you get clutch slip, it will normally start in very cold weather between 2000 and 3000 revs in 3rd or 4th gear. Something to keep an eye out for when the weather gets cold.
DaveNI1979
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by DaveNI1979 »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:45 pm
DaveNI1979 wrote: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:42 pm
Adam_013 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:33 pm Looking at getting mine done - also to approx 130hp. Interested to see how you get on with any clutch slippage, or anything else.. I'd assume as long as you don't drive around like a melon all the time, it'd be fine.. my previous 1.4tdi 9n3 did start to slip when that was mapped, but it was on 110k on the original clutch anyway and it was iffy before hand [emoji23]

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Yeah no clutch slippage at all, very smooth through the gears still, only with more pulling power if that makes sense. Cars ready to go when needed. I dont drive flat out anyway, it mainly helps for passing more safely at 40-60 mph. They spent 2 hrs doin the remapping wasnt some amateur using a laptop. Autotune NI ballymena was place I went too.

mpg is around still around 50 btw, and thats around country roads where i live. Im glad I got it done had been thinking about it for a while.
So did you get a remap or a tuning box? 2 hours seems a long time to fit and tinker with a tuning box. If it is a remap, will they flash back to standard for dealership visits, or put the map back on if a service update wipes it?

If you get clutch slip, it will normally start in very cold weather between 2000 and 3000 revs in 3rd or 4th gear. Something to keep an eye out for when the weather gets cold.
It was a remap, no tuning box added. They are very thorough, they do various dyno tests on it to check everythings just right. Found this on there website.

The program that holds your cars Engine mapping is contained in an EPROM (Chip).

When you "Chip" a car you have to open the cars ECU, unplug or de-solder the EPROM. Then, read the program, modify it, program a new chip with this data then either place it in its socket, or solder it back onto the circuit board.

When you Re-map an ECU, you Read the data from the EPROM (chip) by either connecting through the cars diagnostic socket, or removing the ECU to be done remotely on the bench. Once it has been Read you can modify the file then overwrite the EPROM with the modified file. This then allows you to apply different maps where applicable and also restore the original data should you require it. The benefit obviously of this is that it means you have not changed any standard part of the car and therefore warranty is unaffected etc and insurance company’s cant see that the ECU has been physically altered.

So yeah they can flash it back to default when/if needed.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by RUM4MO »

Is there not a workshop "term" or code for when a VW dealership plugs into a car and compares with factory before and if necessary then updates the engine software, they do seem to change software now and again on new cars, ie as things evolve and based on what is getting reported back to VW technical HQ automatically and by generated reports logged by techs.

Once that code has been logged against a car it becomes "all bets off" as far as FOC engine warranty is concerned even if an unrelated issue occurs, VW I'd reckon retain the services of some quite good/sneaky lawyers to protect them for warranty trouble.

I always thought that 130BHP was really into the region of uncertainty for the older 1.2TSI engines, so unless VW (Skoda) did better this time with the 1.0TSI I would not be going that close to the limit on a car I needed to run for many miles and years.

I know that Ford run high outputs from their 1.0 engines, but it seems many of them kind of melt don't they, I could be wrong there!

Edit:- it might be handy to know what the bmep is now compared with the standard 115PS engine and where it is?
Adam_013
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Adam_013 »

If the software is like any other which I've used, primarily DAF; the computer simply compares the existing version to the latest version. If it's not the latest version, it'll be updated. It doesn't scan through the existing version and validate it. It simply saves the customer set parameters (in my case, speed limit, max torque setting, eco-roll, etc). And then updates the software and reinstates the previous parameters.

I can't imagine anything flashing up at them, all what will happen is the map will be erased and replaced.

Yes a datalog is saved, but not of the existing software, simply the actions of the technician on the computer and a log of DTCs

But yes, I do see your argument and if they do keep track of it, it will of course ruin your engine and driveline warranty, but one should be aware of that when getting it mapped.

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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by monkeyhanger »

^^^ Knew all that. Did you know that every time a change is made to the ECU's chip, either modified or replaced, a TD1 flag is raised and stored. This tells anyone interrogating the system through the OPD port that the car has been modified. Then they will look deeper and see you've been remapped and rescind warranty coverage for drivetrain components.

If you revert your map to stock every time a dealer needs to look at the car (warranty or service visit) you might be lucky enough for them to not poke around and see the TD1 flag. If you're in for something like a bust turbo, slipping clutch, faulty injector, misfire etc. Then they will be looking. If you don't revert back to stock prior to s visit, they will notice that your car is 40% livelier and then start digging.

Due to this, chip boxes used to be the way yo go to avoid detection, as they modify signals that the ECU has sent to injection rail, boost sensor etc. for a few years now (facelift Golf 7 and others after then), those sensory paths now have feedback to detect signal modification.

There are other tells like the car running warmer and exhaust gas profiles changing e.g. more NOx.

Things do go wrong without the help of a remap - the turbo on my Golf R failed at 6 months old/6.5k miles - not catastrophically so, it simply stopped spooling up 1 time in 10 initially and got more frequent over a fortnight. The clutch has also slipped twice during the 2 coldest days of last Winter at about 23k miles (couldn't be replicated by dealership the following week, so no fix). I expect a clutch to last 80k miles if you don't ride it at junctions or otherwise abuse it. There's about £2500 work at dealership rates if your drivetrain warranty is voided. For that reason, I'd give it a year before mapping, to make sure no manufacturing defects manifest themselves sharpish.

None of the big remappers claim to be undetectable.

For the Golf GTI and R, the manual variants get a cage riveted over the chip housing whereas the DSG variants don't - it seems then that VW are very aware that the manual clutch is a weak point even under minor tuning, and the wet clutch DSG box is much more resilient to handling additional load. Recently VW have stopped offering the R with a manual box, and when the R went up from 300 to 310ps during the facelift, VW didn't increase the torque at all.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Andy Beats »

I think I'm going to have to get a tuning box for mine ASAP.
My wife drove it yesterday and complained 'it takes a long time to pull away'
I've noted this myself, the very high gearing and lack of torque means pulling away from lights/junctions is a pain, you have to slip the clutch for a long time or it feels like it'll stall.
I think (hope) an extra 30NM will make pulling away easier.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by mike sel »

Andy

I don't have any issues with the 115 so you should be fine with 125 hp just think about your clutch ..and my usual gripe ...stopping. VW put rear disks on the 115 for a reason and its not to waste money they would otherwise allocate to paying off dieselgate claims. the assumption must be its to help the car stop? just my 2 penneth.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Andy Beats »

mike sel wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:37 pm Andy

I don't have any issues with the 115 so you should be fine with 125 hp just think about your clutch ..and my usual gripe ...stopping. VW put rear disks on the 115 for a reason and its not to waste money they would otherwise allocate to paying off dieselgate claims. the assumption must be its to help the car stop? just my 2 penneth.
Looking at around 119bhp with the box.
I'm confident the standard brakes will work fine, it's not like the tuning box is going to have me driving it any harder.
When Alpina take a standard BMW320D and turn it into an Alpina D3, they don't touch the brakes.
Their argument is that despite adding around 25bhp, they're not adding any weight to the car - so standard is fine.
I've no idea why VW would add rear discs to the 115bhp car, apart from it's possible they just did it to identify as it as more premium and charge more.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Adam_013 »

I feel this is more the case, same with it being 6spd if anything the 115 would cope better with the 5spd but hey...
Andy Beats wrote:
mike sel wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:37 pm Andy

I don't have any issues with the 115 so you should be fine with 125 hp just think about your clutch ..and my usual gripe ...stopping. VW put rear disks on the 115 for a reason and its not to waste money they would otherwise allocate to paying off dieselgate claims. the assumption must be its to help the car stop? just my 2 penneth.
Looking at around 119bhp with the box.
I'm confident the standard brakes will work fine, it's not like the tuning box is going to have me driving it any harder.
When Alpina take a standard BMW320D and turn it into an Alpina D3, they don't touch the brakes.
Their argument is that despite adding around 25bhp, they're not adding any weight to the car - so standard is fine.
I've no idea why VW would add rear discs to the 115bhp car, apart from it's possible they just did it to identify as it as more premium and charge more.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by RUM4MO »

I think that what VW Group does, for each of its brands is, it uses maybe 3 sizes of front brakes and up to 3 types/sizes of rear brakes across the range within each model types, in the case of VW Polo, it seems like over 100PS gets 288mm front discs and 230mm rear discs, I think if you look at SEAT and Skoda, the bigger/better brakes might not appear at this level.

On the subject of output power and torque being developed by the 1.0TSI engines, the Fabia drivers are now starting to squeal with annoyance about what gets delivered and when.

Edit:- I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am influenced by if a small car has or has not got rear discs, I do all my own car maintenance and as VW Group do not every do any brake servicing as part of a service visit, I'm not repeating any brake servicing that is being done by the dealer while the car is under warranty, rear discs have their parts out in the open so are more likely to get regular servicing - drums hide the areas needing serviced, so they tend to get ignored, also modern rear drum brake assemblies are becoming a bit messy to remove and refit - if you need to take the hub off, you will need to buy an expensive new hub nut. Where labour costs are high, like at main dealers, they nowadays tend to just buy in a pre assembled group of parts which are expensive and you need to add the cost of a new hub nut, either £15 or £20 I seem to remember having bought one for a late 2009 Ibiza! As for just changing the shoes, I have a set in my garage for that late 2009 Ibiza - I managed to free things up enough for another year so avoided taking that lot of bits apart!
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Andy Beats »

RUM4MO wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:35 pm I think if you look at SEAT and Skoda, the bigger/better brakes might not appear at this level.
That just shows it's nothing to do with performance.
As I guessed/suggested, it's obviously just a marketing decision from VW.
Gives owners something tangible for their extra money.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by monkeyhanger »

Given the talk about 1.0TSIs having burning clutch smells on a hill start, it does suggest that there's very little capacity to add to your stock output.
Adam_013
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by Adam_013 »

I feel gains can be made and that the clutch would be ok... As long as one was careful on the right pedal... I feel it'd be better as roll on power in 3rd gear onwards. 1st and 2nd would likely be clutch cooking.
monkeyhanger wrote:Given the talk about 1.0TSIs having burning clutch smells on a hill start, it does suggest that there's very little capacity to add to your stock output.
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Re: Anyone got there 1.0 tsi 95bhp remapped?

Post by monkeyhanger »

Adam_013 wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:50 pm I feel gains can be made and that the clutch would be ok... As long as one was careful on the right pedal... I feel it'd be better as roll on power in 3rd gear onwards. 1st and 2nd would likely be clutch cooking.
monkeyhanger wrote:Given the talk about 1.0TSIs having burning clutch smells on a hill start, it does suggest that there's very little capacity to add to your stock output.
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It's usually putting your foot down in a medium high gear (4th on a 6 gear box, 3rd or 4th in a 5 gear box) that causes clutch slip from a torquey engine and He's recent engines have a fair bit of torque relative to the power. Prime example is the Polo GTI engine outdoing it's higher powered peers like the Clio RS around a track.

If VW will put a chocolate clutch in a manual Golf R (and they have), they really wouldn't think twice about putting one in a low output Polo that is just enough to handle stock output. If your clutch does go pop on a remap, there are far more resilient aftermarket options, but you'll be talking £700 fully fitted and having chucked your drivetrain warranty away.
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