Rights when you've bought a brand new car.

[Vonbek2004]

OK, this is a post to get a feel for people's opinions.

So I am convinced there is something up with my new 6month old GTi+. I say it because the drive just feels so jerky, considerably more in slow moving traffic, it's up and down the gears, it feels like the transition going down from 3rd Into 2nd feels like it's always braking the car instead..

The actual car itself is nice but because of the drive etc I just feel that it's not a 25k car.

I have took the car to Volkswagen twice concerning the gear change and also an independent who have all said it's nice and smooth, (perhaps they aren't driving it in crawling traffic)

I thought seating position played a big part in it but I am really not so sure now, as it still does it.

Currently I have the feeling that I really dislike the car and didn't get what I paid for, but I feel it's my word against theirs, as VW on my last visit said it's the charistics of a DSG.

Has anyone experienced a really rough drive when driving in crawling traffic, i.e does it feel like it keeps pushing to go faster etc.

My GTi changes from 2nd gear at 17mph, is everyone's like this (on flats)

Perhaps someone can help me, give me some pointers etc..

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[monkeyhanger]

Have you ever had an auto box before? With an auto box, the car is always looking to go unless you make your intentions to stop clear, by braking. Changing up from 2nd to 3rd at 17mph under low load seems about right. Unless you are putting your foot down, the car is going to try and be as economical as it can be by putting you in as high gear as it can, without labouring the engine.

I don't find my DSG jerky at all, it's very smooth on the upshifts and the downshifts, almost a bit too smooth as it feathers in the changes by slipping the clutch, at the expense of fast, snappy changes when you're putting your foot down.

If you take your foot off the accelerator in traffic and the car changes down from 3rd to 2nd because it reaches a threshold below which it would labour in 3rd, the box feathers the change in to smooth it out if you are in auto mode - not much engine braking going on at all - unless you are in manual mode with either the paddles or the stick to the left and pushing/pulling to change up or down.

If yours isn't doing this then maybe there is something wrong and the dealership's opinion of what is normal or characteristic of the car is different than yours.

I had a similar issue with my last car, a Golf R with a manual box. From day 1 the gearbox throw felt gritty, almost as if the gears were skimming over each other with the change, and on occasion, sometimes the stick wouldn't slot home on a change - mainly dropping 6th to 3rd. I was convinced the linkage needed adjusting.

Initially I was told that the gearbox needed time to bed in (bull!), then I was told that it was a characteristic of the car as such a powerful car needed a robust and slightly crude gearbox to handle the power (bull!). Very few Golf R's came with a manual box, most were DSG. It was 2 years old before I got the opportunity to get behind the wheel of another manual R, and it was almost as gritty on the changes as mine. I thought it must be characteristic at that point. I found out later that lots of GTIs had the same issue, made within a 6 month window that included when my R was made, some had successfully had gearbox changes, some others with linkage adjustments, some got repeatedly fobbed off, like me.

You need to have a go in another to see if it behaves the same way as yours for starters.

[Vonbek2004]

Have you ever had an auto box before? With an auto box, the car is always looking to go unless you make your intentions to stop clear, by braking. Changing up from 2nd to 3rd at 17mph under low load seems about right. Unless you are putting your foot down, the car is going to try and be as economical as it can be by putting you in as high gear as it can, without labouring the engine.

I don't find my DSG jerky at all, it's very smooth on the upshifts and the downshifts, almost a bit too smooth as it feathers in the changes by slipping the clutch, at the expense of fast, snappy changes when you're putting your foot down.

If you take your foot off the accelerator in traffic and the car changes down from 3rd to 2nd because it reaches a threshold below which it would labour in 3rd, the box feathers the change in to smooth it out if you are in auto mode - not much engine braking going on at all - unless you are in manual mode with either the paddles or the stick to the left and pushing/pulling to change up or down.

If yours isn't doing this then maybe there is something wrong and the dealership's opinion of what is normal or characteristic of the car is different than yours.

I had a similar issue with my last car, a Golf R with a manual box. From day 1 the gearbox throw felt gritty, almost as if the gears were skimming over each other with the change, and on occasion, sometimes the stick wouldn't slot home on a change - mainly dropping 6th to 3rd. I was convinced the linkage needed adjusting.

Initially I was told that the gearbox needed time to bed in (bull!), then I was told that it was a characteristic of the car as such a powerful car needed a robust and slightly crude gearbox to handle the power (bull!). Very few Golf R's came with a manual box, most were DSG. It was 2 years old before I got the opportunity to get behind the wheel of another manual R, and it was almost as gritty on the changes as mine. I thought it must be characteristic at that point. I found out later that lots of GTIs had the same issue, made within a 6 month window that included when my R was made, some had successfully had gearbox changes, some others with linkage adjustments, some got repeatedly fobbed off, like me.

You need to have a go in another to see if it behaves the same way as yours for starters.

Thanks monkeyhanger. Yeah I've driven autos before, though probably not this style of gearbox.

I don't know how to approach the dealer on the matter though as must think I am being pretty petty over it because they haven't noticed the issue I'm experiencing.

I will try and drive another like mine, assuming it doesn't need to be the Plus?

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[monkeyhanger]

Doesn't have to be a plus - the non-plus is mechanically the same, just missing a lot of equipment that the plus has. Most cars coming through the dealerships are pluses though as you get a lot of extra equipment for the price difference.

[Aube]

Hi,

The DSG gearbox definitely takes some getting used to, especially if you’ve driven a standard automatic before. I still find crawling in traffic the gearbox will hunt a little, so if the traffic is bad I often select manual mode. Also make sure it’s not in sport mode when in heavy traffic as that can be a real pain. In the early days, like you I went back to the dealer and out on a test drive the technician did say I need to change my driving style. I smiled politely, but in all honesty he was correct. Having said this, if you are still finding the car a pain, try a different dealer if possible, ask the technician to dive and while on the test drive avoid making any comments so you can see how the car reacts while they drive the car. Then you drive and highlight what you find isn’t right with the gearbox. Hopefully this will show either way if there is an issue with the gearbox once and for all.

[l3rady]

My GTI is my first automatic car and the first automatic car I've driven of this type.

I cannot fault the gearbox at all other than the one thing that still bugs me that I made a post about over here: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=73568

When I first got in the car I didn't have to change my driving style at all and found switching to the DSG very natural and comfortable.

The only damn thing is when in certain circumstances the gearbox when changing from 3 to 2 with light breaking the car tries to pull away. It seems counterintuitive because you would think if the gearbox was messing up the change that you would get engine breaking and a deacceleration but what you get is an acceleration which leads to an unpleasant jerk and you need to re-modulate your breaking so not to lurch forward.

Annoyingly I cannot get it to do it all the time so I feel like sending it to the dealer would be a waste of time. I will however when it goes in for its first service mention it along with the very grabby breaks and ask to check all firmware and make sure they are up to date and hope with a year of ownership the Germans have found so bugs or made some tweaks to certain thresholds to allow for a smoother drive.

If not I am not going to lose sleep over it as I kind expect a less smooth drive giving its sportiness. And this little niggle is completely diminished by the good points of this car that overall I'm very pleased with my purchase.

[MattHGR]

Something worth noting here, is that the DSG transmission adapts to your driving style (to a degree).
Therefore, you'll see different reactions on this forum on how the gearbox is functioning for them.

As an example, if I've done a week of gentle commuting I find that the 3->2 change is just like you originally said. It changes early but works a little like a brake and doesn't fully engage until you reach 8mph.

However, if I have been doing some spirited driving over a few days, my 3->2 gear change fully engages second gear instead of acting as a brake (presumably so it's ready for you to accelerate away quickly)

Thought that was worth putting into this post.

Cheers,
Matt

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[Vonbek2004]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll have to think long and hard about whether I have a cause to complain or whether it's me being picky lol.

Ive had a DSG gearbox before on a 11 plate VW Scirocco GT and didn't notice the issues that I have expressed here, gears were a little smoother .

I might try the avenue if test driving another model and check how it behaves in slow moving traffic and see if it behaves in the same way as mine does, then if there is a difference I will go back to my dealer and explain again, though im not sure it will get me anywhere.

I think my next car will be a manual, least I know it can't behave like this because I am in control of when I change gear.

I mean has anyone on here been in a scenario where they have bought a brand new car and are convinced there is something wrong with it and ends up going backwards and forwards to the dealership??


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[l3rady]

Something worth noting here, is that the DSG transmission adapts to your driving style (to a degree).
Therefore, you'll see different reactions on this forum on how the gearbox is functioning for them.

As an example, if I've done a week of gentle commuting I find that the 3->2 change is just like you originally said. It changes early but works a little like a brake and doesn't fully engage until you reach 8mph.

However, if I have been doing some spirited driving over a few days, my 3->2 gear change fully engages second gear instead of acting as a brake (presumably so it's ready for you to accelerate away quickly)

Thought that was worth putting into this post.

Cheers,
Matt

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Thanks for your input Matt, I will keep a lookout to see if when it does its jerkiness after spirited drive the night before and see if there is any relationship between the two.

I am however kind of sceptical that saying the DSG learns to your driving style. I think when it is said it feels like a cop-out and people mean to say it the other way around, that you adjust to the DSG, with the human being the changing factor.

I've never seen anything official for VW explain how this so-called DSG learning tech works and would love to know more if it does actually exists. If there is any learning tech I can only imagine it being very primitive. I know with the advent of AI and machine learning that a smart DSG that actually learns and adjusts to your driving would be possible, but I just don't think VW are there yet. Can anyone shed some proof?

[MattHGR]

Something worth noting here, is that the DSG transmission adapts to your driving style (to a degree).
Therefore, you'll see different reactions on this forum on how the gearbox is functioning for them.

As an example, if I've done a week of gentle commuting I find that the 3->2 change is just like you originally said. It changes early but works a little like a brake and doesn't fully engage until you reach 8mph.

However, if I have been doing some spirited driving over a few days, my 3->2 gear change fully engages second gear instead of acting as a brake (presumably so it's ready for you to accelerate away quickly)

Thought that was worth putting into this post.

Cheers,
Matt

Sent from my SM-N9750 using Tapatalk

Thanks for your input Matt, I will keep a lookout to see if when it does its jerkiness after spirited drive the night before and see if there is any relationship between the two.

I am however kind of sceptical that saying the DSG learns to your driving style. I think when it is said it feels like a cop-out and people mean to say it the other way around, that you adjust to the DSG, with the human being the changing factor.

I've never seen anything official for VW explain how this so-called DSG learning tech works and would love to know more if it does actually exists. If there is any learning tech I can only imagine it being very primitive. I know with the advent of AI and machine learning that a smart DSG that actually learns and adjusts to your driving would be possible, but I just don't think VW are there yet. Can anyone shed some proof?

I agree that we adjust more to the box, than it does to us.

I also haven't seen anything official from VW. Just noticed the subtle changes here and there.

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[cupracing]

I’ve had a few autos now, three of which were DSG, a 2011 scirocco gt, 2015Ibiza cupra 1.4tsi and a 2018 polo gti. I personally find the dsg gearboxes very quirky and it takes time to adapt to them. The gearbox in the polo was definitely the best of the bunch though. If you want a superior auto gearbox then the bmw autos are the ones to go for.

[stevereeves]

Speaking as I find, having driven manaul 'boxes' all my life my experience of an auto / DSG box is limted; 3 or 4 miles in my uncles prev model Polo. Once you got used to the clutchless take offs the change ups were silky smooth though I moticed that, IMO, the car held lower gears a tad longer than I would have, even when going downhill, and seemed a tad slow selecting lower gear when slowing the car. I decided it wouldn't be for me as parking in my (small, council local authority) garage one needs to be literally inch-perfect, and I wouldn't feel 100% confident. Ok I currently have a Golf but the new Polo, should I choose one when my PCP ends in 2020, isn't much smaller. Getting back on topic (please do), if you can replicate the conditions you are concerned about, I'd return to your (usually) friendly helpful VW dealer and have a technician to accompany you for a spin, get the car to 'do it's thing' and get his / her opinion, maybe gets some pointers. I've also heard / read the DSG 'learns' from one's driving style but stuggle to understand how this could be.....