PCP Contracts, Discounts and Salesmen [HELP]

[lancslad1985]

I do think that the "need" to use pressure washers on cars is oversold. As long as you're cleaning your car regularly so nothing gets baked on and are using microfibre cloths when cleaning so that you're not dragging abrasive crap along the car body surface, you'll be fine.

You can have all the pressure in the world, but it's not going to be enough to remove a splattered bug from the front end without also damaging the paintwork. Some jobs require a careful wipe.

Having applied a sealant in the first place does help. I use G-Techniq C2V3, and the car body feels like it is Teflon coated, it certainly helps to get rid of stains as they do wash off easier.

Pressure washers apply water pressure way beyond that the car would experience driving along at 70mph in the rain. My neighbour jets the wheel arches and underside of his car regularly, water gets to places it wouldn't normally and he's had a few electrical problems with the fog lights (which are accessed through a cut-out in the wheel arch - coincidence?

I have a very good pressure washer (which is capable of pulling the ridges off the decking on it's most powerful setting and the pulse head), but use it purely for cleaning the patio and decking.

2 bucket method with microfibre cloths is fine. If you're washing the car weekly/fortnightly then the amount of crap attached to the car on any given wash is minimal

I only use the pressure washer for applying snow foam, I rinse off with the pressure off and no attachment as the gentle stream leaves less to dry off. I used to think snow foam was a gimmick, but after a few goes it works quite nicely if left ten minutes before rinsing as it softens up all the dirt.i would never use a pressure washer to rinse the car at full pressure as it can lift the paint - I know as I did it with my first ever car, was doing the wheel and a tiny bit of paint was damaged and before I knew it a chunk the size of my fist had blown off.

Fact is you’re going to get a swirl or scratch at some point no matter how careful you are. I’m considering a ceramic myself (and monkey you will already know this) but many people think a ceramic protects against stone chips etc. It won’t. Depending on the product it gives a very deep gloss and protects the paintwork but if you’re getting a ceramic that lasts only six months before top ups you might as well get a good quality wax as it’ll be cheaper. Get a ceramic that’s going to last at least a year if not more.

There also comes a line where you can’t be bothered going through all the faff. Some people spend 5/6 hours a week on their car cleaning it. Sack that. I myself have a full detail planned in for when I first get the car and then it’ll be maintenance washes after that with two/three detailing sessions a year.

Tom if you’re still interested the plan is:-
Wheels (Simoniz ultracare)
Snow foam (meguiars)
Shampoo with two bucket method (autofinesse)
Fallout remover (Simoniz)
Clay bar (Autofinesse)
Dry with drying towel (autoglym)
Polish/glaze (auto finesse triple)
Wax (autoglym hd) or ceramic (still to be decided) including the wheels
Tyre shine (meguairs)
Interior - whatever comes to hand that isn’t loaded with silicone and I’ve a stain repellant for the seats.

[lancslad1985]

Just to add I’ve also asked the dealer to not touch the car upon arrival. I’m even considering asking them to leave the protective film on the bonnet and roof. Otherwise you’re removing scratches/swirls they’ve kindly put in for you at their washing station where they pay the guys £6 a car....

[monkeyhanger]

I'd definitely have the films removed. If there's damage present at PDI and the dealership misses it, VW absolve themselves of all responsibility and rectification cost is on the dealership (a new 1999 Polo had a pressing defect on the wheel arch with a perfect paint job, undeniable manufacturing defect. I found it when I first washed the car. Dealership rectified at their own cost).

If you deny the dealership the opportunity to do a proper PDI then anything you reveal after peeling the films yourself will be your responsibility.

[lancslad1985]

I'd definitely have the films removed. If there's damage present at PDI and the dealership misses it, VW absolve themselves of all responsibility and rectification cost is on the dealership (a new 1999 Polo had a pressing defect on the wheel arch with a perfect paint job, undeniable manufacturing defect. I found it when I first washed the car. Dealership rectified at their own cost).

If you deny the dealership the opportunity to do a proper PDI then anything you reveal after peeling the films yourself will be your responsibility.

Fair point thanks for that. I’ll get them to remove the film but not wash it then.

[Simonz]

Love the responses.

@lancslad1985

You're going to have to tell me what products to get mate because that's something I need. However, I don't have a pressure washer or have access to a hose on the outside of my house which is a shame because it's a new-build. Is there an alternative? I really would love a pressure washer. What products are you using and what sort of clay and drying cloth do you have to have because I've seen some videos where the drying cloths are like small blankets I'm all for buying them but I'd like to get the right ones if I am going to do it.

@IMA @MonkeyHanger @SRGTD

I think you're all on the same lines as me with the white, there's something about the white which brings out the shape of the car and I like the white, black and red contrast. I do think it's a brilliant offer which I think is too hard to turn down. I have opted to go with the white and things are getting finalised this week, Friday at the very latest. I'm a massive audio lover and any sort of sound system in the car would be brilliant and with my girlfriend having the Beats Polo, I think the sound system is definitely worth the £6 monthly increase with a rear-view camera. Obviously the wait is longer but honestly, if I had chosen the Reef Blue, I would have the car for a month and I'd be thinking, at this point I could have had a Beats Sound System and a rear view camera for an extra £6.

I think you have made the right choice - colour is a major deal breaker and once you have the car it's not realistic to swap it again if you don't like the colour, minor spec differences are easier to live with. It will soon come around, no need to stress over the wait. Just consider a week ago you were looking at being stuck with an expensive R Line deal instead you are counting the days down to a GTI the top Polo choice. Plenty of time to get the valet kit assembled

[Simonz]

I do think that the "need" to use pressure washers on cars is oversold. As long as you're cleaning your car regularly so nothing gets baked on and are using microfibre cloths when cleaning so that you're not dragging abrasive crap along the car body surface, you'll be fine.

You can have all the pressure in the world, but it's not going to be enough to remove a splattered bug from the front end without also damaging the paintwork. Some jobs require a careful wipe.

Having applied a sealant in the first place does help. I use G-Techniq C2V3, and the car body feels like it is Teflon coated, it certainly helps to get rid of stains as they do wash off easier.

Pressure washers apply water pressure way beyond that the car would experience driving along at 70mph in the rain. My neighbour jets the wheel arches and underside of his car regularly, water gets to places it wouldn't normally and he's had a few electrical problems with the fog lights (which are accessed through a cut-out in the wheel arch - coincidence?

I have a very good pressure washer (which is capable of pulling the ridges off the decking on it's most powerful setting and the pulse head), but use it purely for cleaning the patio and decking.

2 bucket method with microfibre cloths is fine. If you're washing the car weekly/fortnightly then the amount of crap attached to the car on any given wash is minimal

I only use the pressure washer for applying snow foam, I rinse off with the pressure off and no attachment as the gentle stream leaves less to dry off. I used to think snow foam was a gimmick, but after a few goes it works quite nicely if left ten minutes before rinsing as it softens up all the dirt.i would never use a pressure washer to rinse the car at full pressure as it can lift the paint - I know as I did it with my first ever car, was doing the wheel and a tiny bit of paint was damaged and before I knew it a chunk the size of my fist had blown off.

Fact is you’re going to get a swirl or scratch at some point no matter how careful you are. I’m considering a ceramic myself (and monkey you will already know this) but many people think a ceramic protects against stone chips etc. It won’t. Depending on the product it gives a very deep gloss and protects the paintwork but if you’re getting a ceramic that lasts only six months before top ups you might as well get a good quality wax as it’ll be cheaper. Get a ceramic that’s going to last at least a year if not more.

There also comes a line where you can’t be bothered going through all the faff. Some people spend 5/6 hours a week on their car cleaning it. Sack that. I myself have a full detail planned in for when I first get the car and then it’ll be maintenance washes after that with two/three detailing sessions a year.

Tom if you’re still interested the plan is:-
Wheels (Simoniz ultracare)
Snow foam (meguiars)
Shampoo with two bucket method (autofinesse)
Fallout remover (Simoniz)
Clay bar (Autofinesse)
Dry with drying towel (autoglym)
Polish/glaze (auto finesse triple)
Wax (autoglym hd) or ceramic (still to be decided) including the wheels
Tyre shine (meguairs)
Interior - whatever comes to hand that isn’t loaded with silicone and I’ve a stain repellant for the seats.

Thanks for this - some great tips from someone who knows how to do this - I'm new to it as well. Seen a few posts about the two bucket method and clay etc, doing some research. It's gone a bit off topic but a useful thread, imagine it's a big subject and can be confusing with so many products out there. Great to have some recommendations

[Aube]

Hi,

This is a story I hear all to often and isn’t always young and inexperienced! I see people of all ages pay way over the odds for a car, pay ridiculous money for extras like gap, and to cap it all, get pathetic amount money for their part exchange.

If you are buying a car, washing machine or a holiday, do your homework, as there are sites on line that provide advice on just about everything.

In you case, the previous advice to cancel the order is definitely the right thing to do. From the discount you can get from companies like Carwow, £250 is a drop in the ocean to the money you will save if you start again.

I’ve used Carwow and the prices they quote are from main dealers, and even if the best prices isn’t local, you can use the quote to negotiate a deal at your nearest dealer. Second, use Webuyanycar to obtain an estimate of your current car so you have an idea what it’s worth. Armed with this information you will be able to negotiate when sitting in front of the salesperson and not get beaten up. Remember you think he really loves you, but in fact, all they want is your money1

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[monkeyhanger]

Mr Tom Oates:

Reading back through your posts, there was something that concerned me a little bit - a few of your extras that I think need a bit of consideration as they appear to me to be those dealer commission loaded overpriced options:-

Extended warranty: VW stopped doing the factory extended warranty in mid 2018. Unless they've reinstated it, whatever you're buying there isn't officially VW sanctioned. How long is the extended warranty for, what does it cover, and who's underwriting it? How long is your PCP for? If it's 3 years then you won't need it, if it's 4 years, you only need a year's coverage and that shouldn't cost more than £350.

Unlimited service package: What does this cover? You mentioned accidental staining of seats etc. Doesn't sound like a service pack at all.
Busy the £199 service pack, it will cover services at end of years 1 and 2. You'll need to pay for another minor service at the end of year 3 out of your own pocket (about £185) and a brake fluid change (about £60 if done at the same time as your second service). If this pack truly is unlimited services while you own the car and you're only keeping it 4 years, you'll only get 3 services out of it and perhaps your brake fluid change. You might have to go to the dupplying dealership to make use of the services offered as it doesn't sound like an official VW product.

You said these 2 products are "worth" £2000. Are they invoiced as such on your order? If so, I would be inclined to lose them.

Mind if I take a look at them to make sure you're not being ripped off? £2k on a 48 month PCP will be costing £48 a month within the figures you've been quoted.

[SRGTD]

Mr Tom Oates:

Reading back through your posts, there was something that concerned me a little bit - a few of your extras that I think need a bit of consideration as they appear to me to be those dealer commission loaded overpriced options:-

When I was considering buying my current car, the dealer automatically added their ‘protection pack’ - Lifeshine paint protection, GAP insurance and alloy wheel/tyre insurance and minor ding/scratch insurance into the deal. if they were hoping I’d not spot this, they were unlucky!

A good money maker for the dealer, but not something I wanted, so I politely told them their figures were wrong and included items I’d not asked for. The only item from their protection pack I’d consider buying would be GAP insurance, but not at VW’s prices; cheaper to but it elsewhere.

[Aube]

Hi,

Just be careful the dealer isn’t adding sneaky options as the warranty doesn’t cover seats, so double check they haven’t used creative terminology to increase their commission.

On looking after the paintwork, definitely avoid any paint protection like LifeShine as for the price the dealer charge a professional detailer - not mobile valeting van - will do a far superior job. I went this route as I have an allocated parking space and carrying water down a flight of stairs is no fun! The car was given the once over by the detailers, and cleaned to perfection. He also washes it for me when it needs it as a discounted price and then I give the car a polish using Swisvax products thta are amazing.

I saw a one page guide in the latest Whatcar? magazine that has all the basics for car purchases. Worth a look.

[monkeyhanger]

Hi,

Just be careful the dealer isn’t adding sneaky options as the warranty doesn’t cover seats, so double check they haven’t used creative terminology to increase their commission.

From the post I was referring to, the description given looks more like accidental damage protection as indelible stains on seats triggering replacements were specifically mentioned.

Looked like some serious upselling in addition to a bargain price on the car itself.

[MrTomOates]

Mr Tom Oates:

Reading back through your posts, there was something that concerned me a little bit - a few of your extras that I think need a bit of consideration as they appear to me to be those dealer commission loaded overpriced options:-

Extended warranty: VW stopped doing the factory extended warranty in mid 2018. Unless they've reinstated it, whatever you're buying there isn't officially VW sanctioned. How long is the extended warranty for, what does it cover, and who's underwriting it? How long is your PCP for? If it's 3 years then you won't need it, if it's 4 years, you only need a year's coverage and that shouldn't cost more than £350.

Unlimited service package: What does this cover? You mentioned accidental staining of seats etc. Doesn't sound like a service pack at all.
Busy the £199 service pack, it will cover services at end of years 1 and 2. You'll need to pay for another minor service at the end of year 3 out of your own pocket (about £185) and a brake fluid change (about £60 if done at the same time as your second service). If this pack truly is unlimited services while you own the car and you're only keeping it 4 years, you'll only get 3 services out of it and perhaps your brake fluid change. You might have to go to the dupplying dealership to make use of the services offered as it doesn't sound like an official VW product.

You said these 2 products are "worth" £2000. Are they invoiced as such on your order? If so, I would be inclined to lose them.

Mind if I take a look at them to make sure you're not being ripped off? £2k on a 48 month PCP will be costing £48 a month within the figures you've been quoted.

Hi mate,

I've requested more information on the two service or warranty packages involved because I too aren't quite sure what they are or do. I've emailed the salesman and hopefully I'll have a response tomorrow.

I'll keep you updated!

[monkeyhanger]

Hi mate,

I've requested more information on the two service or warranty packages involved because I too aren't quite sure what they are or do. I've emailed the salesman and hopefully I'll have a response tomorrow.

I'll keep you updated!

Don't worry about the car order itself, it's just these extras, that can easily be removed if they're not what you want/need.

I'm presuming you have an order form/invoice that lists these packages/policies? If so, what is the invoiced price on them? Did you receive any brochures for these that describe coverage?

If the accidental protection thing is what I think it is, you'd be paying a lot for a policy that is basically there to cover gross clumsiness. If you don't have a couple of messy kids constantly eating sticky stuff in the back of the car, or a messy dog putting mud all over the back seats, you're not likely to need something that covers the possibility of ruining your seats.

Most likely explanation for you having been sold these packs is that they've been added to net the salesperson some juicy commission. The salesperson gets about £50 commission for your car. Lifeshine, GAP insurance and similar products sold by the dealership for usually £400 a piece net the salesperson about £60 each in commission - so you can see why they're incentivised to push these products hard.

The packs themselves aren't always a bad thing to have, but the price the dealerships charge is the problem. GAP insurance can be had for about £130, and lifeshine (which needs regular topping up by the car owner) involves the application of about £30 of products (sealant, glass beading and scotchguarding for the seats), backed by an insurance policy that you almost certainly will never need to claim on. If you've been optioned around £2000-worth, you've probably got a whole host of these overpriced products.

If they've been invoiced at a much reduced price (like £150-200 each), it might be worth keeping them.

[MrTomOates]

Update:

Contacted the salesman regarding the services and/or warranty packages I’ve signed up for and this is the response:

“Essentially you have 4 years warranty, 2 years roadside and breakdown cover & a 2 year service plan.
With regards to the paint protection it is a life time guarantee on the interior and exterior.

For both products all documentation is supplied on collection of your new vehicle, I hope this has been of assistance”

I asked about cost for them all together and how much it is additional a month on PCP and i am still awaiting a response (should receive one tomorrow). I’m predicting it to be around £20-£30 a month extra. Is this worth it?

[Ima]

Only thing worth having would be 2 year saving plan at £199 which is a no brainer. Paint protection not worth it at all and a rip off imo.