This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

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Andy Beats
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

Someone did a rendition of the Hyundai i5 with white OZ alloys and a martini stripe on twitter last night.
My god it looked lovely.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by vc-10 »

monkeyhanger wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:56 pm Paint costs are a racket that I'm amazed the EU hasn't stamped out. Metallic paint is a no cost option on VWs in Spain and the US.
And all paint on Seats are 'free' in the UK. But not on Cupras. Even though a Cupra Leon is a Seat Leon with a more powerful engine and different badges.

Certain paints do cost more- metallics more than flat paints, and the clear coat over the top is an extra pass through the paintshop. But I'm not convinced that it's a £600 price difference...
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by SRGTD »

vc-10 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:20 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:56 pm Paint costs are a racket that I'm amazed the EU hasn't stamped out. Metallic paint is a no cost option on VWs in Spain and the US.
And all paint on Seats are 'free' in the UK. But not on Cupras. Even though a Cupra Leon is a Seat Leon with a more powerful engine and different badges.

Certain paints do cost more- metallics more than flat paints, and the clear coat over the top is an extra pass through the paintshop. But I'm not convinced that it's a £600 price difference...
As far as I’m aware, both flat and metallic paints have a clear coat and have done for many years. I’m assuming the only difference is that metallic paint has a few grams of metal particles added. £600 is a lot for a small quantity of metal flakes.

But many of us (myself included) have paid (myself included!) extra for metallic paint at some point, usually because of a dislike of the ‘free’ colour.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

SRGTD wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:33 pm
vc-10 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:20 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:56 pm Paint costs are a racket that I'm amazed the EU hasn't stamped out. Metallic paint is a no cost option on VWs in Spain and the US.
And all paint on Seats are 'free' in the UK. But not on Cupras. Even though a Cupra Leon is a Seat Leon with a more powerful engine and different badges.

Certain paints do cost more- metallics more than flat paints, and the clear coat over the top is an extra pass through the paintshop. But I'm not convinced that it's a £600 price difference...
As far as I’m aware, both flat and metallic paints have a clear coat and have done for many years. I’m assuming the only difference is that metallic paint has a few grams of metal particles added. £600 is a lot for a small quantity of metal flakes.

But many of us (myself included) have paid (myself included!) extra for metallic paint at some point, usually because of a dislike of the ‘free’ colour.
Yes, non metallics have a clear coat. If you buy a touch up kit for your white or red GTI, it'll have a colour bottle and a clear bottle.

The amount of powdered aluminum or mica in a metallic or pearlescent paint is tiny on a weight for weight basis. If it cost a pound per car more for metallic paint vs "solid" I'd be amazed. It's like that £4 tub of popcorn at the Cinema (remember those?) that costs 5p to make - the mark up is ridiculous.

It's no coincidence that the "free" colour is usually an unpopular choice, with the exception of flash red on the Polo GTI or Tornado red on a performance Golf (or white, they keep changing the free colour).

Where there are multiple solid colours and all but one carry a £300ish charge, it's even more blatant as money gouging
Last edited by monkeyhanger on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

All sorted, picking up the ID3 tomorrow. It'll be a long day - 5 hour train journey to Evesham, maybe an hour pickup and 4 hour drive back plus a 20 min stop for charge top up likely.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

monkeyhanger wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:36 am All sorted, picking up the ID3 tomorrow. It'll be a long day - 5 hour train journey to Evesham, maybe an hour pickup and 4 hour drive back plus a 20 min stop for charge top up likely.
Pah, s'nothing.
Our last few cars have been Chesterfield, Milton Keynes and Watford.
Get on with it. :D
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by SRGTD »

Cupra (Seat’s performance brand) have unveiled their el-Born EV model - essentially a VW ID.3 but wearing a sharper set of ‘clothes’. Presumably, as it’s the ‘hot’ version, it’ll have some performance (larger battery?) and handling tweaks to make it a sharper drive. I think it looks quite good, and IMO it looks better than the ID.3 (from the front, it reminds me a little of the current model Peugeot 208);

Image

Image

Image

This is the Seat (non-performance) version;

Image

Image
Andy Beats
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

Definitely nicer than the ID3
Like an ID3 has lost weight and gone to the gym a bit
I like it
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

It's weird, but Seat/Cupra have managed to make the 2 variants look like 2 different cars. The performance one is very Peugeot 208 and the non performance looks very Ford Focus at the front end. Having all that open mesh on the front end seems an odd choice too, as I'd expect it to hamper aerodynamics somewhat. I like the lack of black cowling on the bonnet (but don't hate it on the ID3 as it contrasts well with our white paint). I do prefer the ID3s less fussy back end though. The detailing on the C-Pillar is very current Peugeot/Vauxhall too.

Side on, it looks identical apart from the extended sills - It's basically an ID3 with a body kit.

Output-wise, from what I have read elsewhere, I think the performance one has the same output as the "Pro Performance" spec drivetrain on the ID3 - 204ps motorr and 62kWh battery.

Cupra is just a badge these days - they're putting out some low performance cars among the more powerful ones in their ranges.

The other will have the 145/150ps motor and either the 45kWh (short range) or 62kWh (long range) battery.

Until batteries get cheaper and smaller,going any bigger than 204ps/62kWh is going to get expensive and the extra weight of the extra batteries is not going to have half the performance impact of a higher output ICE engine - remaps don't come with a 200kg penalty.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

monkeyhanger wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 11:55 am

Until batteries get cheaper and smaller,going any bigger than 204ps/62kWh is going to get expensive and the extra weight of the extra batteries is not going to have half the performance impact of a higher output ICE engine - remaps don't come with a 200kg penalty.
It's already happening, given that a 62KWH pack now takes up the same room as a 30KHW pack from years ago.
And Renault did a graphic for the Zoe, showing the original pack took up the whole floorpan for 90 miles.
The same range now only needs batteries the size of a large suitcase.
That's in the past 6 years or so, things are advancing at a much faster pace now
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

Andy Beats wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 2:11 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 11:55 am

Until batteries get cheaper and smaller,going any bigger than 204ps/62kWh is going to get expensive and the extra weight of the extra batteries is not going to have half the performance impact of a higher output ICE engine - remaps don't come with a 200kg penalty.
It's already happening, given that a 62KWH pack now takes up the same room as a 30KHW pack from years ago.
And Renault did a graphic for the Zoe, showing the original pack took up the whole floorpan for 90 miles.
The same range now only needs batteries the size of a large suitcase.
That's in the past 6 years or so, things are advancing at a much faster pace now
Hopefully the tech advancements continue at the same pace - making them lighter is half the battle. The ID3 weighs in at about 1850kg with the 62kWh pack, if they can shave 300kg off that then without even increasing the capacity they'll probably add 60-80 miles to the range.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

I just priced up a Cupra Born on the German website, and to spec it up to the well equipped low (but not bottom) ID3 Life trim, with 18" alloys the same 204ps output/62kWh battery and those bucket seats is coming in at €40490, so that's going to be a £38k car in the UK, with no grant, unless they are very creative with basic spec plus packs that don't count towards the grant threshold. They're seemingly putting the Cupra brand right up at Audi levels. Will be interesting to see how it does, especially as my previous experience with Seat dealers is that they offer nowt in discount off their margin.

Can't see it being any sharper handling than the ID3 with the same performance,.

So bucket seats, slightly nicer door cards and a body kit is going to cost a realistic £9k more (maybe £6500 more if it can creatively remain grant eligible).than a dscounted Life not taking into account a deposit contribution from VWFS. It'll need to be whopper to redress that financial disparity - I doubt even the Audi badge could justify that price discrepancy.

I'd be hard pushed to justify paying an extra £2k for the sporty styling. At the same price I'd be all over it.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:34 pm I just priced up a Cupra Born on the German website, and to spec it up to the well equipped low (but not bottom) ID3 Life trim, with 18" alloys the same 204ps output/62kWh battery and those bucket seats is coming in at €40490, so that's going to be a £38k car in the UK, with no grant, unless they are very creative with basic spec plus packs that don't count towards the grant threshold. They're seemingly putting the Cupra brand right up at Audi levels. Will be interesting to see how it does, especially as my previous experience with Seat dealers is that they offer nowt in discount off their margin.

Can't see it being any sharper handling than the ID3 with the same performance,.

So bucket seats, slightly nicer door cards and a body kit is going to cost a realistic £9k more (maybe £6500 more if it can creatively remain grant eligible).than a dscounted Life not taking into account a deposit contribution from VWFS. It'll need to be whopper to redress that financial disparity - I doubt even the Audi badge could justify that price discrepancy.

I'd be hard pushed to justify paying an extra £2k for the sporty styling. At the same price I'd be all over it.
The above, while interesting, really won't be of much relevance to the average owner.
Like me, they'll just look at the lease/PCP figure.
And if it's the same, or even a wee bit more, than the ID3 I'd be very interested*


*assuming nothing else comes out that catches my eye in the meantime
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by monkeyhanger »

Andy Beats wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 9:19 am
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:34 pm I just priced up a Cupra Born on the German website, and to spec it up to the well equipped low (but not bottom) ID3 Life trim, with 18" alloys the same 204ps output/62kWh battery and those bucket seats is coming in at €40490, so that's going to be a £38k car in the UK, with no grant, unless they are very creative with basic spec plus packs that don't count towards the grant threshold. They're seemingly putting the Cupra brand right up at Audi levels. Will be interesting to see how it does, especially as my previous experience with Seat dealers is that they offer nowt in discount off their margin.

Can't see it being any sharper handling than the ID3 with the same performance,.

So bucket seats, slightly nicer door cards and a body kit is going to cost a realistic £9k more (maybe £6500 more if it can creatively remain grant eligible).than a dscounted Life not taking into account a deposit contribution from VWFS. It'll need to be whopper to redress that financial disparity - I doubt even the Audi badge could justify that price discrepancy.

I'd be hard pushed to justify paying an extra £2k for the sporty styling. At the same price I'd be all over it.
The above, while interesting, really won't be of much relevance to the average owner.
Like me, they'll just look at the lease/PCP figure.
And if it's the same, or even a wee bit more, than the ID3 I'd be very interested*


*assuming nothing else comes out that catches my eye in the meantime
It's all related - if you've got something with a high initial price and low 2 or 3 year value, its not going to be cheap to lease or PCP. If those prices come to fruition, it'll be interesting to see what the PCP GFVs are to get a gauge on whether VAG are confident that the Cupra brand will be accepted as a premium brand and have good residuals as a result to make the cost of depreciation reasonable despite the high RRP.
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Re: This'll make Andy's jaw drop...

Post by Andy Beats »

I've maybe asked this before, but does the ID3 have a side charge port?
Saw a photo of the Seat on twitter this AM and it does, which completely rules it out for me.
Stupid stupid idea that panders to ICE owner but is actually a complete PITA.
I'll have to check the ID4 and the new Nissan SUV, see which one of this has a front/rear charge point and whichever one does will be the wife's new car when the Evoque goes.
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