I'm off guys

[Andy Beats]

Just a wee note to say I'm off guys, I've found ICE forums too depressing lately - especially people talking about buying new ICE cars when that shouldn't even be contemplated now.
Not good for my mental health, so only answer is to leave.
All the best, many of you have been a good laugh and very helpful over the years.
Tatty bye!

(PS the daughter's 'united' is getting sold and she's getting into a Zoe anyway)

[silverhairs]

Just a wee note to say I'm off guys, I've found ICE forums too depressing lately - especially people talking about buying new ICE cars when that shouldn't even be contemplated now.
Not good for my mental health, so only answer is to leave.
All the best, many of you have been a good laugh and very helpful over the years.
Tatty bye!

(PS the daughter's 'united' is getting sold and she's getting into a Zoe anyway)

BYE

[TheRacingRat]

Wow! I think if someone wants to buy a ICE car it’s up to them, what if you live in a 3rd floor flat or in a terrace house with no access to charging points and have to drive long distance? For some people at the moment ICE cars are still the only solution.

On a side note, being on car forums for the last 20 years, you are one of moaniest people I have ever heard, all you come on here to do is whine and moan-and you talk about this forum being depressing! I feel sorry for whatever forum you move onto next, but I hope it helps you cheer up a bit.

Also this is a Polo forum, and there is no such thing as an electric or even a hybrid Polo, so it’s no surprise people talk about ICE on this forum.

[Flashredpolo]

In my current situation an ICE is my only option, sure I'd love a Tesla but that just wouldn't work with where I live. Buying an EV isn't taking the moral high ground nor should it relieve any guilt, but you tell yourself that so you can sleep easy at night. If I were you I wouldn't look into exactly how dirty the process of making a lithium battery is because it might just be too much for you. PS I love planting my foot and watching the needle drop to E my GTI

[monkeyhanger]

In my current situation an ICE is my only option, sure I'd love a Tesla but that just wouldn't work with where I live. Buying an EV isn't taking the moral high ground nor should it relieve any guilt, but you tell yourself that so you can sleep easy at night. If I were you I wouldn't look into exactly how dirty the process of making a lithium battery is because it might just be too much for you. PS I love planting my foot and watching the needle drop to E my GTI

I swapped out our Polo GTI+ and A4 Avant TDI for 2 ID3s, not because I think I'm saving the planet, but I got a stonking deal on them both and the running costs are coppers...if (and its a big if) you can charge at home on an overnight cheap tariff or have access to those free Scottish chargers.

If I didn't have a driveway and the ability to charge at home, I'd resist the move to EV for as long as possible because charging away from home is a PITA - either free/cheap and slow, or expensive and fast. Start paying 30-40p per kWh.for a fast charge and the running cost advantages of an EV are wiped out with diesel sized fuelling costs.

Recent energy mix for the grid regularly has renewables accounting for just 15-20%. and most of it coming from burning natural gas, with a bit of coal and 1t% Nuclear on the side. Under those circumstances, having an EV is a bit NIMBY.

No-one is saving the planet in an EV, but I am saving £200pm at the pumps with my home charger.

Range drops off significantly in the Winter when cabin heating and battery conditioning (more heating) with an EV - not a bother when you're doing short journeys and pennies for a charge , but a much greater hit than a petrol car like the GTI+ has in the Winter.

[stevereeves]

Speaking for myself, I go on-line & joined forums on a variety of subjects for interest & info. I don't get into spats as life is too short for such things, it's mostly just about opinion & everyone is 'correct'.

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

[silverhairs]

In my current situation an ICE is my only option, sure I'd love a Tesla but that just wouldn't work with where I live. Buying an EV isn't taking the moral high ground nor should it relieve any guilt, but you tell yourself that so you can sleep easy at night. If I were you I wouldn't look into exactly how dirty the process of making a lithium battery is because it might just be too much for you. PS I love planting my foot and watching the needle drop to E my GTI

I swapped out our Polo GTI+ and A4 Avant TDI for 2 ID3s, not because I think I'm saving the planet, but I got a stonking deal on them both and the running costs are coppers...if (and its a big if) you can charge at home on an overnight cheap tariff or have access to those free Scottish chargers.

If I didn't have a driveway and the ability to charge at home, I'd resist the move to EV for as long as possible because charging away from home is a PITA - either free/cheap and slow, or expensive and fast. Start paying 30-40p per kWh.for a fast charge and the running cost advantages of an EV are wiped out with diesel sized fuelling costs.

Recent energy mix for the grid regularly has renewables accounting for just 15-20%. and most of it coming from burning natural gas, with a bit of coal and 1t% Nuclear on the side. Under those circumstances, having an EV is a bit NIMBY.

No-one is saving the planet in an EV, but I am saving £200pm at the pumps with my home charger.

Range drops off significantly in the Winter when cabin heating and battery conditioning (more heating) with an EV - not a bother when you're doing short journeys and pennies for a charge , but a much greater hit than a petrol car like the GTI+ has in the Winter.

Free Scottish chargers paid for by the English tax payers money and handed over as the Barnett Formula

[stevereeves]

At the risk of stirring the pot a little, I have a mate living in Glasgow who told me Tesla loaned EVs FOC to COP26 delegates to help demonstrate clean their running with zero polution, which is true of course. Only, there's is but one charge point at the hotel, so 12 or so diesel generators were brought in which kinda defeats the object somewhat....

[Andy Beats]

Free Scottish chargers paid for by the English tax payers money and handed over as the Barnett Formula

Just thought I'd log back in to say you're out of date..... AGAIN
Hasn't been free public charging for well over a year.

[monkeyhanger]

9
Free Scottish chargers paid for by the English tax payers money and handed over as the Barnett Formula

Just thought I'd log back in to say you're out of date..... AGAIN
Hasn't been free public charging for well over a year.

You'll miss him really.

I'm sure he stayed off during lockdown because he thought he'd catch Covid via a computer virus.

[monkeyhanger]

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

It's a big hit. Once warm, those petrols and diesels are kicking out a lot of excess heat thar can be used to heat the cabin.

On an EV you're using an electric heater kicking out up to 3kWh initially and probably using half a kWh thereafter to maintain 18-20C.

In addition to that, most marques (including VW) have a warming circuit for the battery. They don't work optimally below 14C. After a while, driving the car and depleting the battery generates its own heat. So on long journeys, the effect of the cold isn't huge, but on frequent short journeys the effect is significant, up to a 25% hit in efficiency. Not a big deal to be paying 2p a mile in Winter vs 1.5p a mile in Summer on a favourable overnight rate, but range is reduced.

[stevereeves]

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

It's a big hit. Once warm, those petrols and diesels are kicking out a lot of excess heat thar can be used to heat the cabin.

On an EV you're using an electric heater kicking out up to 3kWh initially and probably using half a kWh thereafter to maintain 18-20C.

In addition to that, most marques (including VW) have a warming circuit for the battery. They don't work optimally below 14C. After a while, driving the car and depleting the battery generates its own heat. So on long journeys, the effect of the cold isn't huge, but on frequent short journeys the effect is significant, up to a 25% hit in efficiency. Not a big deal to be paying 2p a mile in Winter vs 1.5p a mile in Summer on a favourable overnight rate, but range is reduced.

Thanks for the info. As an aside, when I can be bothered, too tired right now, I'll tell all why I got a Golf Mk8 and NOT a Polo as I'd kinda intended.
[spoiler alert, it WASN'T cos I think the Polo is a bad car, which it isn't]....

[Johntheo1]

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

It's a big hit. Once warm, those petrols and diesels are kicking out a lot of excess heat thar can be used to heat the cabin.

On an EV you're using an electric heater kicking out up to 3kWh initially and probably using half a kWh thereafter to maintain 18-20C.

In addition to that, most marques (including VW) have a warming circuit for the battery. They don't work optimally below 14C. After a while, driving the car and depleting the battery generates its own heat. So on long journeys, the effect of the cold isn't huge, but on frequent short journeys the effect is significant, up to a 25% hit in efficiency. Not a big deal to be paying 2p a mile in Winter vs 1.5p a mile in Summer on a favourable overnight rate, but range is reduced.

A Heat Pump will only need 30% to 50% of conventional resistance heating power and its already half way there if A/C is installed, surprised they are not more common.
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/heat-pump ... 92036.html

[lancslad1985]

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

It's a big hit. Once warm, those petrols and diesels are kicking out a lot of excess heat thar can be used to heat the cabin.

On an EV you're using an electric heater kicking out up to 3kWh initially and probably using half a kWh thereafter to maintain 18-20C.

In addition to that, most marques (including VW) have a warming circuit for the battery. They don't work optimally below 14C. After a while, driving the car and depleting the battery generates its own heat. So on long journeys, the effect of the cold isn't huge, but on frequent short journeys the effect is significant, up to a 25% hit in efficiency. Not a big deal to be paying 2p a mile in Winter vs 1.5p a mile in Summer on a favourable overnight rate, but range is reduced.

Thanks for the info. As an aside, when I can be bothered, too tired right now, I'll tell all why I got a Golf Mk8 and NOT a Polo as I'd kinda intended.
[spoiler alert, it WASN'T cos I think the Polo is a bad car, which it isn't]....

Was it because it was in stock and orders take forever at the moment? That’s how I ended up in a Tiguan when I went for a golf!

[monkeyhanger]

Was wondering about EV heaters; what wattage would they be, how would they affect charge and how effective are they? The 'heater' in a petrol or diesel car is basically an additional small radiator with air blown onto or over it then directed around the interior....

It's a big hit. Once warm, those petrols and diesels are kicking out a lot of excess heat thar can be used to heat the cabin.

On an EV you're using an electric heater kicking out up to 3kWh initially and probably using half a kWh thereafter to maintain 18-20C.

In addition to that, most marques (including VW) have a warming circuit for the battery. They don't work optimally below 14C. After a while, driving the car and depleting the battery generates its own heat. So on long journeys, the effect of the cold isn't huge, but on frequent short journeys the effect is significant, up to a 25% hit in efficiency. Not a big deal to be paying 2p a mile in Winter vs 1.5p a mile in Summer on a favourable overnight rate, but range is reduced.

A Heat Pump will only need 30% to 50% of conventional resistance heating power and its already half way there if A/C is installed, surprised they are not more common.
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/heat-pump ... 92036.html

On the ID3 at least, the heat pump is only effective for cabin heating and not battery preconditioning, so it's effectiveness is limited. Also the heat pumps are more effective vs conventional electric heating the colder it gets - when you have a minus 15C Scandinavian or Central Europe freeze they are much better. With our mild UK winters when the Mercury dips just below freezing maybe 5-10 times a year, not so much.

VW gave a partial refund to those who already optioned one and dropped price of the heat pump by 25% because they'd oversold the benefits of having one. I personally didn't bother. Here in the UK it might buy you an extra 10.miles of Winter range, but cost vs charging cost, it would've taken about 9 years for the heat pump to pay for itself on a normal electricity tariff, or about 30 years on Octopus GO 5p per kWh.