Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

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littlepolo
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Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

According to this earlier press release.

https://www.am-online.com/news/supplier ... lubricants

I'm using Quantum 5W40 in my 1.4 16V but cannot find any specs other than it meets VW 502, 505, and 505.1 which I guess means its OK. I wonder if it is mere coincidence that Fuchs Titan SuperSyn is also very close to these specs? Given the price that Quantum is available from TPS I cannot imagine a more costly blend is resold under the brand.

After a rebuild I put a 5W30 in to flush out the Graphogen and any other debris then a new filter and then Quantum 5W40. I noticed also noticed the oil consumption on 5W30 was higher, albeit within spec. I read somewhere that some 5W40 grades are very close in grade to a 30, only being one Centistoke (a measure of Kinematic Vicosity) apart at 100C. With cold starts, fuel wash, etc. it does not take much for a 40 oil to drop a grade to 30 and continue to thin out.

I think you know where I'm going with this. When I put in the 5W40 the engine was pretty quiet once warmed up, with just a very light tapping noise after a good run. Now, 2000 miles later after mainly cold starts during the recent cold spell there is a slightly louder light tapping noise (probably one tappet at the end of the oil gallery) which is noticeable on start and still there when warmed up. So I'm wondering if the oil perhaps not staying in grade has brought this on. I'm using a Mann filter and assuming it is not clogged after such a short mileage and the ADB is working OK.

Given the low cost of Quantum I'm tempted to drain and refill to see if it goes back to where it was. I also have some Shell Helix 5W40 so could give that a try and see if the marketing / grade stability of one supplier holds up better than another. I'd also read that Castrol use some clever chemical engineering trickery in their Magnatec, something along the lines of an ester that helps Magnatec quieten things down.

On the subject of esters has anyone used an ester based oil in their Polo and if so which one and what were the effects? I've read that esters cling to metal surfaces better so add more protection on startup as well as during running leading to much quieter operation. I'm just considering to fine tune and try to get the old engine running as silky smooth as possible. Mainly the vehicle does relatively short trips (of approx 20 - 30 miles daily with two start ups. So maybe the options are a 5W40 that is more possibly robust in grade (or starting from a higher point) or an ester based oil? Can I rule out out a gummed up sticky tappet and trying to clear it with hydraulic lifter fluid? Incidentally, before the old engine got really bad I had the most success in terms of quiet running with Magnatec 10W40 semi.
RUM4MO
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by RUM4MO »

Tricky subject to get a proper useful answer to I think.

Quantum I thought, had moved to sourcing oils from Fuchs again, though this has nothing to do what is used at the factory.

After Quantum stopped selling Gold I moved to Fuchs Super Synth(sp) after that stopped being sold I moved to Mobil 1 ESP and am still there and my cars are a lot newer. If I was still running a older high mileage 1.4 Polo I would have stuck with a 5W-40 maybe only out of habit and a version for short fixed servicing spec.

Magnatec certainly did it’s job for me as far as I could work out, but that was used in a 1991 Vx CAv GSI 4X4 2000 16V - (yes the rear had all that info on it!) - so maybe hide your pride/shame and pay too much money for that oil?
littlepolo
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

The subject should read Quantum is now Fuchs.

Magnatec is available as a full synthetic in 5W40, in the usual Castrol 4L package.

I think I'll swap Quantum out for Shell Helix Ultra at 3000 miles and leave it work its detergent magic.

If that doesn't do it I'll revert to Castra Magnatec 5W40.
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by alexperkins »

I can’t say I’ve noticed any issues since quantum switched from Castrol to Fuchs and we get through a lot of oil here

If anything, the 5W30 sounds smoother than it was previously
bvs
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by bvs »

I don't know how cold it has been down your way LP,but up here in rural perthshire I think the cold weather has knocked hell out of our Polo engine oil,by the middle of march the Polo engine was noticeably noisier - and with mayo present on the oil cap/engine breather pipe.To be fair though we do not use the car every day and sometimes it sits for days on end.
I did not realise Quantum had changed supplier - I have only just put some Quantum 5w40 in our Polo LOL - I will see how it goes :)
Until this recent oil change I have been using ECP Triple QX 5w40 and the Polo has been happy/quiet on that.
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by RUM4MO »

@bvs poor Polo, sounds like too many short journeys in wintertime - but maybe that is what it needs to get used for! I've never noticed ant mayo in any of our cars for too many years, now MIL's Fiesta, it tended to get used for 1 or 2 miles most of its like and it looked like it was always well loaded up with mayo, too much for me to risk removing any without having some blobs dropping down into the cam chest area!

Yes it is still winter down round about Edinburgh, well slightly South and higher up than Edinburgh, mainly sleet showers with maybe snow later, oh bother bother!
bvs
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by bvs »

We don't do too many short journeys RUM but we do not have to drive every day,during the really bad snow the Polo was parked up for 2 weeks without being used.
So I suspect the mayo was mostly caused by sitting out in cold/damp weather and thereby getting condensation in/on the oil.Hopefully we will get some warmer weather at some stage LOL.

rgds baz
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by RUM4MO »

bvs wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:56 am Hopefully we will get some warmer weather at some stage LOL. rgds baz
(answered while in very negative mood) Okay but when?
We went to Lisbon for a few days, and it was colder than normal for this time of year and even wet one day, younger daugher and BF when to Porto and it was okay but a bit wet and colder than normal at this time of year, older daughter who owns a ground floor flat has suffered kitchen being flooded 6 times over the past 4 days (don't ask, dumb plumbers and/or their management controllers - oh and its Easter nothing gets sorted over Easter, costs too much to send people out it seems when a third party is managing things), leaves for the Algarve on Sunday afternoon - and the forecast for that area is not normal for this time of year - oh joy! A complete coincidence that all of us seem to have picked Portugal this year - but Spain and elsewhere is no better weather wise, friends have just come back from Mallorca and it was not very pleasant - nothing like it usually is at this time of year.
I've always considered that one thing I don't need when I go abroad on holiday is cold and wet weather, I can get that anytime at home, though never suffering drought is okay!

Edit:- maybe moving forward a month or so my comments will be "too hot, where is the rain?" !
littlepolo
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

Since I rebuilt the engine in December we have had low temps, snow, frost, etc. and perhaps this has exacerbated engine noise. Now I think of it the quietest I heave heard it since then was a warm spell (14C+). I was waiting for some warm weather also to note the effects on engine noise.

The noise is really not too bad, but I'd like to understand exactly why it's there and if possible reduce it. I remember running older cars with solid bucket tappets on 20W50 and after a thrash in summer they also because tappety. As for the old Polo it is quieter on 5W40 than 5W30 so viscosity is a factor.

Incidentally, I trawled up the report below which is interesting. I know there could be much debate about the validity of this particular test but shows some dramatic differences in results nonetheless.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
littlepolo
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

I had opportunity to speak with a Fuchs person last week who told me that Quantum contains an additive pack that is specific to meet VW’s requirements.

Due to a slightly noisy tappet I decided to drop the Fuchs from the sump today. I added Comma Petrol flush to a warm engine and ran at fast idle for ten minutes before draining. When I drained the catch pan into a container I noticed small particles in the bottom. It looks like white metal so I’m hoping it was leftover from the rebuild. There was next to nothing on the magnetic drain plug.

Refilled with Helix 5W40:to see if it’s cleaning properties might clear a potential gummed tappet. Also swapped the filter. Will leave this in for a few hundred miles before draining and inspecting again.
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by RUM4MO »

Yes, I accidentally ended up asking that sort of question of Fuchs to the Fuchs rep, ie a local national car parts warehouse were selling Fuchs, but also their own oil which had been confirmed by others as being supplied by Fuchs, but sold at a lower price - it was made clear to me that Fuchs supply to many brands and will always use an additive that meets that brands requirements, which translates into "pricing bracket" - at the time I asked that question, I was unaware that that car parts place also sold Fuchs oil in Fuchs branded containers, my mistake!

I think that as you might expect, any questions concerning "same" oil but different rebranding will always get that answer.
littlepolo
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

Just following up with some more info since I put in Shell Helix 5W40. Basically there is one tappet that is a bit noisy on startup and quietens down a bit when warm. With the ambient temps up to 22C last week it was overall quieter. Now the temps are back around 14C the tapping is more noticeable. So with the engine and oil at normal temp there it seems there is a difference in noise level due to ambient temps. Looks like I'm going to have to wait a while for it to warm up again to confirm this.

I've ran about 500 miles mainly motorway since the oil change so would have expected a sticky adjuster to have freed up a bit. What would be the ambient temperature effects if any? I'm tempted to drop the oil again and see if there is any more debris which would indicate something other than a sticky adjuster. At temps of 20C plus the noise level is almost acceptable but at lower temps it is annoying. It's not noticeable when under way at usual town and motorway speeds. I guess the increased oil pressure and road noise explain that.
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by alexperkins »

Wynns used to make a hydraulic lifter additive that worked wonders. Might be worth trying!
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by RUM4MO »

I added that to my daughter's previous 6K 2002 Ibiza - a late one! It might have made a slight difference, but at least it is something to try!
littlepolo
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Re: Quantum is not Fuchs and not Castrol / oil issues / noise

Post by littlepolo »

I tried Wynns before the engine rebuild though there was no hope of it overcoming mechanical failure. I've just ordered a bottle of Forte Top End Treatment which seems to be have some good reviews. Even though today was cool after the engine warmed up the noise was quite subdued. I'm hoping the Forte treatment can de-gum the sticky tappet and that the problem is not mechanical.

In other news, after approx 800 mainly motorway miles the engine has used virtually no oil (Shell Helix 5W40). Long may that continue.
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