Front o/s brake binding not excessive

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littlepolo
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Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:50 pm

So was my MOT advisory. I have noticed a drop in mpg so after a run at speeds up to 60mph and local driving put my finger on both front discs. Front n/s is warm, front o/s is warmer - a bit too warm to touch.

Front calipers, discs, pads, and flexible hoses were changed before the MOT it passed in October. However, the calipers and flex hoses were changed after the first MOT which it failed for other reasons. On both occasions it was noted that front o/s brakes were binding but not excessive.

Any thoughts or suggestions on this problem please?

RUM4MO
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:58 pm

So, if you now take each front wheel off, is the calliper sort of "solid" or can you move it about, if its sort of "solid", then maybe the new pads need to be rubbed with a file to remove a small thickness of paint or backing metal, then the correct paste applied.

Edit:- out of interest, which brand of pads did you fit?

littlepolo
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:30 pm

I’ll need to check the calipers. Fitted new Febi discs and pads (without the wear sensor). They have been in place since October, so over 2000 miles. The calipers, pads, and slide pins were greased when fitting just before the MOT, and still got the advisory. One point is the brakes were binding more heavily before that time and eased off after the aforementioned works (new calipers, slide pins, and flex hoses). However, the new front n/s disc was showing wear, the o/s less so. Never really got to the bottom of that but guess it was the old calipers and slide pins (mainly the latter).So I’m wondering if I’ll have to fit new discs and pads to solve the problem. Agree, some fettling might solve it too but surely the pads would have worn a bit and settled by now?

RUM4MO
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:03 pm

I'd think that if indeed the backing metalwork of the new pads was slightly over sized for these refurbished or aftermarket callipers - or more likely over sized for the built in calliper carrier which might have reduced to size due to corrosion build up, then even after some time they will still be tighter than is desirable, same goes for too much paint on the edges of the discs.

Edit:- these were time wasting but free/no cost ideas to resolve this, ie no need to spend more cash on parts at this time.

littlepolo
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:51 pm

Thanks RUM4MO. There cannot be much wrong with it so a little more fettling around the brake pads is worth a try. The replacement calipers were identical Lucas type (without the corrosion on the former - which I tried to clean up a bit) but I felt that the Febi pads never did sit quite right, even after removal, re-greasing, and refitting more than once. I think I'll try VW pads (or possibly another brand) next time.

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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:51 pm

I'd hope that if you still find the need to get other pads, after trying to sort out the ones currently fitted, that getting a set of Pagid ones from even ECP would be a lot cheaper than VW's ones, and still work okay in these callipers.
These originally Lucas branded callipers from the Girling Lucas company, had moved on to being TRW a few years after your car was built, who still own that design, so I was guessing that any calliper that you had bought that was in better or refurbished condition would be from probably a 3rd party brake parts supplier, so maybe not exactly the correct dimensions at some points.

Once, when I ran a 2000 VW Passat 4Motion car, I bought Textar front brake pads for my car from ECP, they did not look quite right and when I checked up on the TMD website (that is the company that owns Pagid, Textar and Mintex) and found that these pads only for use in Japan market for that car! Slight dimensional differences, I contacted TMD UK's sales rep online and explained that that was not very good as ECP were the sole importers of Textar and Pagid parts to UK, I got an apology and a set of the correct pads FOC, which was handy!

littlepolo
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:59 am

Can anyone help with the original part number for front brake pads to fit the Lucas FSIII caliper?

I'm trying to obtain some Pagid pads and the supplier needs the VW part number to identify the correct product.

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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:22 am

From my old records for my wife's previous car which was a September 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V 75PS with FSIII front callipers and so 256mm front discs:- Front pads Pagid T1163 (555 2161/1) GSF 64330 OEM p/n = 1J0 698 151G single sensor with skt con with skt pins, backing thickness 5.08mm pad material thickness 13.6Pst/13.8Clpr mm anti-squeal

GSF stock code seems to have been added for my convenience, I think because at "the time" only GSF stocked Pagid front pads, it is too easy, if you have brake wear system in the car, to end up with the wrong "sex" of connector I seem to remember, or maybe that was only a problem for the rear pads.

The Pagid correct pads kit part number would have been sourced from the Pagid website - too many Pagid pads suppliers in UK at least, just stock a more common pad kit, I needed to "attack" TMD Friction UK's sales dept about this and they sent out a set of correct pads FOC after GSF sold me the slightly wrong ones!

So, that means 1J0 698 151G was the original VW part fitted to that car at initial build.

littlepolo
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:42 pm

Thanks for the information. Very relieved to see the T1163 code because that is what the supplier sent. Looks like very good quality for about £20. It will be the first time my Polo has had a wear sensor fitted since I removed the original pads back in 2011-ish for Mintex.

Incidentally, in earlier discussions it was thought the front calipers could be Lucas or ATE. The pads supplied are definitely indicated by the supplier as fitting ATE. I've never been so confused with parts and codes as Polo brakes.

By the way, do you have any experience with TRW discs? They seem to be a lot cheaper than the alternatives. I need to inspect the front n/s because that was previously binding and there was some accelerated wear on the disc. In the event that a new one is needed TRW would be the cheaper option.

RUM4MO
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:31 am

That is confusing as these callipers, as long as they are FS111, I thought, were known as "Lucas" - though the rear callipers are definitely Lucas, which might mean that a lot of us have been wrong for a long time and they are in fact ATE - otherwise known as Teves as ATE is just another way of writing Alfred Teves.

I really do have an issue with Mintex, they must be as good as their parent's other companies like Pagid and Textar, and they are the British arm of that group so really we British people should support them, but from my previous buys of their options for VW Group, the visible assembly quality is shocking - so what is the quality where it counts, plus back in 2005 they were still supplying the older versions of bolts for the rear callipers, so using their stuff always meant reusing the original bolts, too much trouble so I stuck with the other TMD Friction options like Textar and Pagid.

I've never ever bought TRW discs and the reason for that for me is that Pagid is readily available via ECP at a good price, TRW are OEM suppliers to VW Group for steering and braking parts though - so if they are cheaper, why not, just make sure that they are coated with that silver stuff to hold back rusting on the unswept areas like the Pagid and in general all other of quality have, I think that VW Group called it Geomet .

littlepolo
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by littlepolo » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:26 am

The FS III is a bit of a puzzle. More online references I see that mention FS III also mention ATE, with no mention of Lucas.

The TRW discs are painted, vs Pagid which are coated. There is not a big difference in price so if discs are needed I'll got for Pagid.

I'll also check the discs for any run out since they were binding more before and there is a possibility the front o/s could have warped.

RUM4MO
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Re: Front o/s brake binding not excessive

Post by RUM4MO » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:30 pm

From that I'll try to always think of FS111 being ATE always now - why can't they always have the brand cast into them!!

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