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Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:12 am
by amer6R
Hi,
Cold weather came, and it was all good till -6°C. My car starts like its summer time, but my steering warning light comes on, and it will turn off like after idleing like for 15 minutes.
I scanned with diagnostics I get no faults, and i can communicate with the power steering pump, from live values it says its ON, recieving 14.40-14.60V, and consuming 31.00A these readings were while my steering was still stiff.
Can someone confirm if these values are normal?
Can it be that my battery is weak ( 65A) ?
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:24 am
by iichel
if the battery voltage is too low, the system will prioritise certain items and switch off other items. like power steering, radio, extra heating, etc.
65Ah is OK (factory is 68Ah for 1.6 TDI), but if your battery is aged or worn, it can become less powerful, and temperature also will have an impact on battery performance.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:37 am
by amer6R
Do you maybe know what should be the Voltage reading of a healthy battery?
I replaced mine last year. Im starting to go crazy about this stupid problem.
Can it that glow plugs draw so much current while heating them ignition on for 10-15s ?
Does your battery light stay on for like 2-3s after starting the car, and goes off?
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:12 am
by iichel
I'm not 100% sure about the exact power consumption numbers. My battery light goes off as soon as I press the start button.
This should describe the state of charge pretty well
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:49 am
by amer6R
Thank you, I will check it.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:19 am
by RUM4MO
amer6R wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:49 am
Thank you, I will check it.
I don't know if you have had an older Polo/Ibiza/Fabia, but the TDI versions of these older cars suffered badly from some of the wiring breaking due to the engine moving about a lot in TDI powered cars. The wires that tended to break were the alternator excitation feed and the alternator load sensing, both or either of these wires can end up stopping the alternator being able to perform as well as it is needed to, the excitation wire broken or even partly broken can stop the alternator charging initially at low engine revs, which when coupled with a cold battery that has just started a TDI will tend to disable bigger power loads like the steering system when moving a cold just started car out of a tight parking slot, the indication of this happening is that the "charge" light stays on until the engine revs have been increased to maybe 2000 rpm(a guess).
On the previous versions of these cars, these wires "pass through" a plug and socket that is mounted to a bracket near the engine<>gearbox joining point at its lowest level, as VW Group and others do not move forward at every model revision, this might still be an possible problem as these TDI engined cars get older - just a suggest.
Edit:- also as that car is quite old now, the brushes on the alternator might have worn down to the point that they are limiting the alternator output at any/all engine speeds, so maybe switch the headlights on + main beam, and switch on the heated rear window and the cabin fan, then check the voltage across the battery at a fast idle, ie maybe 2000 rpm.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:51 am
by amer6R
RUM4MO wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:19 am
amer6R wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:49 am
Thank you, I will check it.
I don't know if you have had an older Polo/Ibiza/Fabia, but the TDI versions of these older cars suffered badly from some of the wiring breaking due to the engine moving about a lot in TDI powered cars. The wires that tended to break were the alternator excitation feed and the alternator load sensing, both or either of these wires can end up stopping the alternator being able to perform as well as it is needed to, the excitation wire broken or even partly broken can stop the alternator charging initially at low engine revs, which when coupled with a cold battery that has just started a TDI will tend to disable bigger power loads like the steering system when moving a cold just started car out of a tight parking slot, the indication of this happening is that the "charge" light stays on until the engine revs have been increased to maybe 2000 rpm(a guess).
On the previous versions of these cars, these wires "pass through" a plug and socket that is mounted to a bracket near the engine<>gearbox joining point at its lowest level, as VW Group and others do not move forward at every model revision, this might still be an possible problem as these TDI engined cars get older - just a suggest.
Edit:- also as that car is quite old now, the brushes on the alternator might have worn down to the point that they are limiting the alternator output at any/all engine speeds, so maybe switch the headlights on + main beam, and switch on the heated rear window and the cabin fan, then check the voltage across the battery at a fast idle, ie maybe 2000 rpm.
I've tried revving the engine past 2000 rpm the light didn"t go off.
I have spotted that connector in summer time, it was basically dangling it doesnt have many wires, it was just flopping around not mounted to anything. I have made a rubber protection and zip tied it so it doesnt dangle. And have also mounted the engine under tray. So i doubt that is the fault.
Checked this morning the alternator connector the one bellow the ground going to alternator, that bastard is in awful position. Sprayed wd40 but same thing.
Bloody el. Gremlins
The worse part is snow everywhere, i cant really get my self under the car.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:40 pm
by amer6R
Update: It seems that again the connector leading to pump has came lose
. Will post update in morning.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:23 am
by amer6R
Update: -8° started like a champ, again fault on dash. Removed the fog light, i cant hear the pump running so yeah. Bummer for now.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:24 pm
by amer6R
It seems the battery is fine, I have successfully pulled a DTC
00816 Power steering sensor
030 Open circuit/short to B+
My prediction is a torn wire on power steering sensor since it's periodic? This is the sensor on the rack? I know that rack is bolted to the subframe. Is there any way to get to it from the top, removing the batter, and air intake filter box?
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:09 pm
by iichel
No this is about the blue wire to B+. B+ is the battery, not the blood type
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:20 pm
by CarbonChaos
iichel wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:09 pm
No this is about the blue wire to B+. B+ is the battery, not the blood type
Love that humour
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:23 pm
by amer6R
Blue wire from battery?
- IMG_20200912_120004.jpg (3.97 MiB) Viewed 2625 times
I know that this wire leads to power steering pump, does it also split to the g250 sensor on the rack?
I cleaned like 3 months ago these contacts.
I wasnt able to remove the connector blue brown from the pump.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:42 pm
by iichel
No, the G250 sensor has three wires (black green brown) to the power steering sensor. But it is only present in cars without ESP.
Re: Power steering pump battery
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:59 pm
by amer6R
iichel wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:42 pm
No, the G250 sensor has three wires (black green brown) to the power steering sensor. But it is only present in cars without ESP.
I dont have ESP, can i get to it from the top? I think you replaced the rack from 6C you might know.
So wait, cars with ESP ( that have g85 sensor) dont have G250? Its blanked out on steering rack?
Can the G250 be forgotten and retrofit g85?
. Will post update in morning.