Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

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iichel
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by iichel »

Today I've been messing around a bit with a 6C0 907 379 L ESP control module.
The good news is, it is recognozed by VCDS!

The bad news is, I have not managed to code it. I reverse-engineered the coding for ESP 9.0i MQB but my coding is not accepted.
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by iichel »

I have given up for now on the CC by MFS retrofit. I cannot manage to change the ABS and code it correctly.

I have 7E0 ABS and ESP9.0i from Polo 6C. The problem is probably my 1.2 TDI engine, the ECU cannot communicate with the ABS.
If anyone wants to try, and use one or both of these units, let me know.
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by ciclo »

iichel wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:18 pm ...The problem is probably my 1.2 TDI engine,..
yes, related to software for emissions ... Euro5 vs Euro6
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by Rycho »

Maybe you could try one from skoda rapid 6R0614517BK(BD) both are for PQ25 platform.

There is also 1S0614517F, 1S0614517L for PG25.
Current models arel MQB 6R0614517BQ and 6R0614517CA.

(Found on other forums)
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by dnoermann »

Hello @all.
First i like to wich every one a Merry Christmas.
Second i like to say coll move of you all in digging deaper into retrofiting Cruise Control (in Germany we call it ACC) to the Polo, or to the T5.2
I myself drive a T5.2 and started some Month ago in digging deaper into this topic, too.
Dam that i found this Forum so late.
I hope you all did not completely stopped working on this.

Here is what i can contribute on knowlage:

To use ACC the folowing ECU's are involved:

- Engine
- ABS
- Instrument Cluster
- Auto Dist. Reg (J428)
- BCM
- Keys on steering wheel

While looking to retrofit ACC from T6 to T5.2 i analysed the ECU's

- Engine: the EDC17CP20 CFCA ECU which is used in TDI T5.2 was available for a short Time in the T6, too, so i thought that it can do the job, probably which a newer firmware
But searching the net i never found a T6 with the 180ps CFCA EU5 TDi Engine and ACC.
Than i found a sales presentatio whith a *** on ACC saying that is is only available with the new EU6 Engines.
From techical point of view there can be different points why this is so:
- For ACC the Engine ECU needs a new funcionality
- VW was not allowed to sell ACC wich EU5 Engines because of some EU regulation
- VW dont wonted to Test/Certify this combo because the EU5 Engine was dying anyway

- ABS: looking into VW Parts database showed that this differs from the T5.2 ABS threr is a complete new ABS for the T6 made and here there are two Versions
7E0 907 379 P which is ment for the T6 without ACC, but from random VCDS scans in the net it looks like this unit is sometimes used in T6 with ACC
7E0 907 375 Q this unit is for ACC usage and yes andom VCDS scans in the net show that this unit is used in ACC equipped T6
The unit in T6 has a 38 Pin Connector, the one from T5.2 has a 47 Pin Connector
The Pinning is easily reversed from Car schematics which are available on ERWIN.
So only new Thing in T6 ABS is support for Switch and Led of "Bergabfahr-Assistent" sorry thats the German Name for it "DownHill Assistend" or so, meaning it breakes for you when you drive extreme down hill
Coding could be a problem, because ABS is not known whell in VCDS, but i have some Example codings from T6

- Instrument Cluster: not looked into it
- Auto Dist. Reg (J428): Thats the only new thing that is needed, just buy it and get rid of the "Component Protection"
- BCM: The T6 used in the beginning the BCM of the T5.2 7H0 937 090 B/D should do it probably which or without a newer firmware
- Keys on steering wheel: Got a T6 steering wheel whith ACC keys

I kow have all componets together with a T5.2 loom and and T6 loom on my Desk.
Only thing that is missing is the ABS Unit, thats because that one is very expensive to find.

Before i buy that expensive ABS Unit, i try to solve some key barriers by getting more Data:

- Is is possibly to "get rid of" or "disable" the "Component Protection" of the "Auto Dist. Reg (J428)" ?
- Is there a real Communication problem beetwin new ABS and EU5 ECU ?

Hopefully someone can hekp and share some knowlage.


Greets from Germany

Dennis
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iichel
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by iichel »

Hi Dennis,

it's all a bit uncertain, to be honest. I think that the new CC features (ACC and CC by MFSW) require an engine by Euro 6 emission standards.
However, there are a lot of things that can be activated by non-plug and play features.

You'll very likely need, at least, the following things:
- Cluster that will support ACC (MFA+ menu) and component protection features. The cluster is the CP master, if the cluster doesn't support it, there is no way to legally disable CP.
- New ABS module is very likely needed, the ESC ESP module has certain bits and bytes for ACC. P or later, IIRC.
- Engine ECU that understands ACC / CC by MFSW signals. There are people that have knowledge of activating ACC and CC by MFSW in engine firmware in these Bosch ECU's.

So the best answer is, we don't fully know. Activating these features on your T5.2 will very possibly require some hacking and other non-plug-and-play solutions.
And of course a new MFSW and maybe also a 7E0 BCM from T6.

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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by Bizmo »

Following with interest, I have a CFCA engine described above and am now running a t6 BCM, is there any way I can provide some sort of dump from the ecu/bcm to be of help?

I’m only running an ‘E’ revision ABS module and the factory cluster which is very limited in options from the factory, though I understand some can be unlocked via VCP?
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by Adam87 »

Following with interest, I have a T5.1 (2015) with the aim to fit ACC, I have a T6 ABS unit with look and plug (which I think when I last checked only had a larger + wire), I have a radar, steering wheel with ACC buttons (already installed) and T6 BCM (already installed)
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by massimo23 »

Hi there all. Lichel i see you had/have a polo 6c abs pump 6c0907379l which is identical to mine.
I wanted to know if this pump is compatible for acc and also park assist?
Just to remind i have cruise control, front assist, hill start assistant, 8k park pilot.

Thanks.
Here is a scan of abs:
Control unit: 03 Brakes
System description: ESP9.0i
Software number: 6C0907379N
Software version: 0005
Hardware number: 6R0907379BA
Hardware version: H04
Serial number: 08500081160603
ODX name: EV_Brake1ESP90iBOSCHPQ26
ODX version: 100020
Backup name: Brakes
Long coding:
23DD2485492533C6091A106D0059C42492CC90080005CBF98F00
Adaptations:
Anti-slip regulation (ASR):
activated
Hill-start assistant:
normal
XCP calibration protocol:
Not activated
Straight ahead brake stabilization:
activated
Roller test bench mode:
activated
Electronic Stability Program:
activated
Electronic Differential Lock:
activated
Overboost in brake system:
120BAR
Hydraulic brake assistant:
normal
Expanded electronic differential lock:
medium
Rear axle hard braking:
activated
Tire pressure monitoring display:
2
Tire pressure monitoring display, tire selection:
2
Tyre_pressure_control_monitoring_datalogging:
0
Engine drag torque control:
activated
Activating and deactivating all development messages:
VW Botschaften:
Not activated
BOSCH Botschaften:
Not activated
Dynamische Entwicklungsbotschaft 1:
Not activated
Dynamische Entwicklungsbotschaft 2:
Not activated
Dynamische Entwicklungsbotschaft 3:
Not activated
Developer_Function_120:
RKA Warning Error:
No Warning/Errro(Default)
Roller test bench mode, functional:
Not activated
Brake disk drying:
Data:
medium
ABS in lower speed range:
activated
Developer_Function_121:
Not activated
Hill-start assistant, increase threshold:
Three Percent

and the parking assistance:
Control unit: 76 Parking Assistance
System description: PARKHILFE 8K
Software number: 5Q0919294K
Software version: 0054
Hardware number: 5Q0919294A
Hardware version: H03
Serial number: 39331616502046
ODX name: EV_EPHVA18AU3700000
ODX version: 002026
Backup name: Parking assistence
Long coding:
0031151001
Transmission:
Man.trans.
Distance regulation:
Not activated
Trailer:
without trailer hitch
Mute:
activated
Directional stabilization assist. w. power steering assistance:
not installed
Visual display for park assist:
OPS display
Camera type:
Rearview camera
Limited operation:
available
Vehicle path display:
with vehicle path display
Wheels sensors with detection of direction of rotation:
not installed
Coding information:
coded
Hybrid/electric drive:
not installed
Parking assistant:
not installed
Adaptations:
Speaker volume for rear park assist:
Stage 2
Speaker frequency for rear park assist:
Stage 1
Speaker volume for front park assist:
Stage 2
Speaker frequency for front park assist:
Stage 2
Audio reduction request:
On
Park assist activation tone:
On
Switch-off speed for parking assist:
15 km/h
Production mode:
Deactivating
Deactivate production mode:
Deactivating

and Steering assistance:
Control unit: 44 Steering Assistance
System description: EPS_TRW_ALow
Software number: 6C2909144AG
Software version: 3232
Hardware number: 6C2909144D
Hardware version: 323
Serial number: CG661488
ODX name: EV_SteerAssisUDSTRW
ODX version: 016026
Backup name: Steering assistance
Long coding:
000700
Activation of start-stop function:
not active
Steering angle sensor:
internal
All Wheel Drive (AWD):
not installed
Active reset:
active
ABS/ESP:
installed
Warning light and display:
Red warning lamp
Adaptations:
Download without rest bus:
Suspension data bus:
not active
XCP calibration protocol:
active
Activating and deactivating all development messages:
Development messages:
not active
Activation of pwr steering asst without engine running:
not active
Software end stop:
active
Straight line running:
active
Support power:
100%
Characteristic curve of steering assistance:
Driving profile selection button
Driving profile switchover:
Incremental, controlled over time
Engine type:
motor_tune_selector:
small type 1
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by iichel »

I don't know to be honest. I'm not very familiar with the 6C0 platform and all its mods.
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by dnoermann »

iichel wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:08 pm
- Engine ECU that understands ACC / CC by MFSW signals. There are people that have knowledge of activating ACC and CC by MFSW in engine firmware in these Bosch ECU's.

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Hallo iichel, thanks a lot for answering.
I will go on in that direction, probably you can get me in contact to that "people that have knowledge of activating ACC and CC by MFSW in engine firmware of EDC17"

Aditionaly, i found your Work in Analysing MK100 ABS Coding on the Ross-Tech Forum.
Great work !
I used your work and corected some stuff on basis of my ABS long codings of T6.
Probably we can look into it together.

Greets
Dennis
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by dnoermann »

Bizmo wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:43 pm Following with interest, I have a CFCA engine described above and am now running a t6 BCM, is there any way I can provide some sort of dump from the ecu/bcm to be of help?

I’m only running an ‘E’ revision ABS module and the factory cluster which is very limited in options from the factory, though I understand some can be unlocked via VCP?
Adam87 wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:10 pm Following with interest, I have a T5.1 (2015) with the aim to fit ACC, I have a T6 ABS unit with look and plug (which I think when I last checked only had a larger + wire), I have a radar, steering wheel with ACC buttons (already installed) and T6 BCM (already installed)
Adam and Bizmo, great to here that i am not alone.
Probably we can team up ?

Did you already looked into retrofitting the Radar from the Mechanical point of view ?
One solution is to change the compleete Front from T5 to T6 but the Parts for that are very expensive.
Can the mechanical Mount retrofittet and a Hole made into the Bumper ?

Greets

Dennis
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by massimo23 »

I was studying scan files and other info from different sites regarding difference between cruise control to Adaptive cruise control on a Polo 6C. At this point my head is cabbage haha.My polo has cruise control, front assist radar with emergency brake and hill assist. Now looking at multiple admaps and scans of other polo 6c with ACC i found the these differences so far:

My Polo Radar - System description: ACC Bosch MQB - ODX name: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372 - ODX version: 001016
Software number: 5Q0907572F - Software version: 0400
Hardware number: 5Q0907572F - Hardware version: H05
Serial number: 08061603214364
Long coding: 00000000FE0739

Polo 6C with ACC: System description: ACC Bosch MQB - ODX name: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372 - ODX version: 001016
Software number: 5Q0907572F - Software version: 0400
Hardware number: 5Q0907572F - Hardware version: H05
Coding: 00001000FE0739
EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372_VW26.rod

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Abs Control unit: Control unit: 03 Brakes System description: ESP9.0i - ODX name: EV_Brake1ESP90iBOSCHPQ26 -ODX version: 100020
Software number: 6C0907379N - Software version: 0005
Hardware number: 6R0907379BA - Hardware version: H04
Serial number: 08500081160603
Long coding: 23DD2485492533C6091A106D0059C42492CC90080005CBF98F00

Polo 6C with ACC: Control unit: 03 Brakes - System description: ESP9.0i - ODX name: EV_Brake1ESP90iBOSCHPQ26 -ODX version: 100020
Software number: 6C0907379M - Software version: 0004
Hardware number: 6C0907379B - Hardware version: H01
Coding: 21DD4885492733C90917106D0051841292CC90080005CBFB8F00

I do not know if my abs is acc compatible...

I already have an mfd plus hardware/software number 6C0920740E

Looking at the Coding and adaptions i found the following:

01-Engine: Byte 05 Bit 5 and 6 activated for acc with front assist

03-Abs:
this is the coding from my polo 6c:
23DD2485492533C6091A106D0059C42492CC90080005CBF98F00
and these are from other polo 6c with ACC:
21DD48858B2333C9111C307100548412D1CC880C0005CBF98F00
21DD4885492733C90917106D0051841292CC90080005CBFB8F00
21DD4885892933C4111410720051841291CC88080005CBFD8F00
21DD4885492733C90917106D0051841292CC90080005CBFB8F00

13- Acc Radar or Auto Dist. Reg: Adaptions:
Option for presetting of time gap: On
Multiple assignment of buttons in multi-function steering wheel:Activated

17- Instruments
(Byte 01: Bit 5: Activated - my polo has this activated)
Byte 04: Bit 2: Activated - ACC

19- Gateway: Adaptions:
Multi_function_steering_wheel_control_module Coding Value: Version: from CCS to ACC High
On my polo and the other polos with ACC the setting for the adaption "Installation list, specified installations: Adaptive Cruise Control: coded " was the same.

5F-Info Control Unit: Adaptions:
Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2: menu_display_ACC: Activated
menu_display_ACC_over_threshold_high: Activated

Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2: ACC_0x05: Activated
ACC_0x05_msg_bus: Terminal 15

I was wondering if my ABS is ACC compatible. Mine is a 6R0907379BA with sw 6C0907379N while other polos are 6C0907379B with sw 6C0907379M.
I noticed in the gateway that the ACC is coded.

Hope this info will be helpful.
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by dnoermann »

From my analyses of T6 ABS Units, i know that for ACC you need a different unit.
Thats not only Coding, the ABS for ACC needs to have a Pump that can work all the Time, because breaking can be used all the Time.
Normal ABS even with "City Breaking" is only used 1 Time.

So i would assume you need one from a Polo with ACC.
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Re: Retrofitting of Cruise Control by MFS on Polo 6R, T5, T6

Post by massimo23 »

Thanks mate, i thought that all right.
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