Difficult to start on hill without burning clutch

[Leif]

All very odd, I’ve driven three or more Polos with manual boxes, no issues. Incidentally DSG boxes have a history of unreliability. That is because they are basically manual boxes with electronic actuators and they’ve had issues with cooling. The current versions are said to be improved. Certainly if you run it under warranty you should be fine.

[monkeyhanger]

All very odd, I’ve driven three or more Polos with manual boxes, no issues. Incidentally DSG boxes have a history of unreliability. That is because they are basically manual boxes with electronic actuators and they’ve had issues with cooling. The current versions are said to be improved. Certainly if you run it under warranty you should be fine.

DSG box issues do happen (mainly failed mechatronic units - the brains and actuator system box), but they are few and far between, and pretty much always fail within the first 6 months (much like turbos - I've had 2 go at about 4 months old no bother thereafter) rather the 3 or 4 years in. Get past 1 year and yours is almost certainly going to last you a long time. My Dad is on his 3rd DSG Golf and has done just over 400,000miles between them with no DSG issues. The wet clutch 6 speed (and recently introduced 7 speed) for high output models are less likely to wear through clutches prematurely than the low output 7 speed dry clutch variant that all non-GTI DSG Polos use. You'd have to boil the transmission fluid to overheat a wet clutch.

Manual boxes usually are reliable unless you get contaminated clutch plates causing premature slip. There's been a few of those reported for MK7 performance Golfs on the Golf GTI forum.

[Leif]

All very odd, I’ve driven three or more Polos with manual boxes, no issues. Incidentally DSG boxes have a history of unreliability. That is because they are basically manual boxes with electronic actuators and they’ve had issues with cooling. The current versions are said to be improved. Certainly if you run it under warranty you should be fine.

DSG box issues do happen (mainly failed mechatronic units - the brains and actuator system box), but they are few and far between, and pretty much always fail within the first 6 months (much like turbos - I've had 2 go at about 4 months old no bother thereafter) rather the 3 or 4 years in. Get past 1 year and yours is almost certainly going to last you a long time. My Dad is on his 3rd DSG Golf and has done just over 400,000miles between them with no DSG issues. The wet clutch 6 speed (and recently introduced 7 speed) for high output models are less likely to wear through clutches prematurely than the low output 7 speed dry clutch variant that all non-GTI DSG Polos use. You'd have to boil the transmission fluid to overheat a wet clutch.

Manual boxes usually are reliable unless you get contaminated clutch plates causing premature slip. There's been a few of those reported for MK7 performance Golfs on the Golf GTI forum.

The Honest John web site reports issues with the DSG clutches, and several people with experience in the motor trade - buying and selling - advise against buying older VAG cars with DSG boxes, advising people to go for the kind used in many Japanese automatics for example. It’s not that issues are common, or even frequent, but that if they do occur, repairs are very costly, and some other auto boxes are almost bomb proof. I have seen reports of failures in cars much older than one year.

The 7 speed dry clutch does have issues:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/v ... -vii-2013/

There was a significant problem with the wet clutch a few years ago resolved with a recall and changing from synthetic fluid to mineral. There is a thread here with comments on VAG DSG boxes, including a post by SLO76:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post ... &m=1274645

His views are from the point of view of a used car dealer. His sentiments are echoed by others.

[monkeyhanger]

All very odd, I’ve driven three or more Polos with manual boxes, no issues. Incidentally DSG boxes have a history of unreliability. That is because they are basically manual boxes with electronic actuators and they’ve had issues with cooling. The current versions are said to be improved. Certainly if you run it under warranty you should be fine.

DSG box issues do happen (mainly failed mechatronic units - the brains and actuator system box), but they are few and far between, and pretty much always fail within the first 6 months (much like turbos - I've had 2 go at about 4 months old no bother thereafter) rather the 3 or 4 years in. Get past 1 year and yours is almost certainly going to last you a long time. My Dad is on his 3rd DSG Golf and has done just over 400,000miles between them with no DSG issues. The wet clutch 6 speed (and recently introduced 7 speed) for high output models are less likely to wear through clutches prematurely than the low output 7 speed dry clutch variant that all non-GTI DSG Polos use. You'd have to boil the transmission fluid to overheat a wet clutch.

Manual boxes usually are reliable unless you get contaminated clutch plates causing premature slip. There's been a few of those reported for MK7 performance Golfs on the Golf GTI forum.

The Honest John web site reports issues with the DSG clutches, and several people with experience in the motor trade - buying and selling - advise against buying older VAG cars with DSG boxes, advising people to go for the kind used in many Japanese automatics for example. It’s not that issues are common, or even frequent, but that if they do occur, repairs are very costly, and some other auto boxes are almost bomb proof. I have seen reports of failures in cars much older than one year.

The 7 speed dry clutch does have issues:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/v ... -vii-2013/

There was a significant problem with the wet clutch a few years ago resolved with a recall and changing from synthetic fluid to mineral. There is a thread here with comments on VAG DSG boxes, including a post by SLO76:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post ... &m=1274645

His views are from the point of view of a used car dealer. His sentiments are echoed by others.

I think you'll find it was the "DQ200" dry clutch 7 speed DSG as in the 1.0TSI Polo that had the recall, for a change in the hydraulic fluid that the electronic unit and clutch mechanics bathe in (but not the clutch pack itself). This was back in 2013 and is very old news. The newly introduced synthetic fluid (specifically for the then recently introduced DQ200) had a propensity to degrade under service within a year, to the point that it became conductive and shorted the mechatronic actuators. VW took the stance post recall that if the actuators hadn't shorted yet, they were unlikely to do so in the future with the fluid change - an "All or nothing" fault rather than a progressively degenerative one.

The dry clutch 6 speed "DQ200" as used in the Polo GTI and pre facelift MK7 Golf GTI PP/ Golf R and pretty much every other 2.0TSI and 2.0TDi out there is considered very reliable. Even one of your links above states:

"I’m thinking of a VW Polo 1.8 GTi DSG.

It does use the better wet clutch type set up I believe as with all higher powered VAG models which is far less likely to go wrong".

If you have the DQ250 as per Polo GTI, you're unlikely to have any issues with it if the fluids are changed as per VW recommendations to remove detrious material from clutch wear.

If you have the DQ200 as per the rest of the DSG Polos this recall is very old news and the issue has been resolved in 2013. The clutch packs do wear out quicker on the dry clutch (more friction, less cooling).

Talking of Japanese autos, the Nissan CVT box is considered problematic junk, even by honest John.

[Leif]

Nissan is not really Japanese, they went down hill once they partnered with Renault. They are not mentioned when people refer to reliable Japanese makes such as Toyota.

The comment about “if the fluids are changed as per VW recommendations” is why you have to be careful with second hand units. Then again, I buy new as a) you get the three years warranty taking care of build problems and b) the car only has one careful owner who has it regularly serviced, and never wears the clutch etc.

[Andy Beats]

Nissan is not really Japanese, they went down hill once they partnered with Renault. They are not mentioned when people refer to reliable Japanese makes such as Toyota.

My last two cars have been Nissan (Leaf and Juke) and were very good.
Solidly built, no reliability problems at all.
Seeing as you mentioned the link with Renault, when we had the Juke 1.5dci we also had a Renault Captur 1.5dci at the same time.
Same car, underneath, but the build quality of the Nissan was light years ahead of the Renault.
I'd recommend Nissan to anyone and was close to going for Micra this time.
If I'd known what a pain VW front assist was going to be, I wish I had....

[Leif]

You can’t extrapolate from a few samples. As an example of Nissan reliability, their Note city car comes second from bottom here:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what- ... vey/n17798

The Nissan Pulsar is just as bad. Shall I go,on?

[Leif]

Oh shucks, I’m not totally evil. The Juke does well:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what- ... vey/n17817

[monkeyhanger]

The CVT is all on Nissan, Renault didn't develop it. Despite Renault tech generally being crap, I don't think anyone builds a truly awful diesel engine these days, so no real hardship having a Renault DCI, eve if the VAG units are far better for refinement and BMW units are better at mpg.

I've always thought that Nissan were the worst of the Japanese marques, even back to remembering my Grandad's string of Datsun rustbuckets - corrosion resistance has come a long way since then!

Never fancied one myself - the Japanese seem to do models that either look incredibly dull or s**t crazy these days - my mate's new Honda Civic looks like it was dreamt up by a bunch of 17 year old Halfords enthusiasts. The one from a few generations ago was a proper Grandads car.

I suppose we're all looking for different things in a car. I like hot hatches and high powered diesels although my current commute doesn't lend itself to DPF regeneration, so diesel is out unless I get a job with a 30 mile each way commute.

[Andy Beats]

You can’t extrapolate from a few samples.

Unless you're suggesting I'm somehow 'luckier' than the next person, it's perfectly fair for me to assume my two Nissans are representative.
Isn't the Leaf listed as one of the most reliable cars available?
Not a lot go wrong, of course.
No weak clutch to make a burning smell, for starters....

[Leif]

You can’t extrapolate from a few samples.

Unless you're suggesting I'm somehow 'luckier' than the next person, it's perfectly fair for me to assume my two Nissans are representative.
Isn't the Leaf listed as one of the most reliable cars available?
Not a lot go wrong, of course.
No weak clutch to make a burning smell, for starters....

Oh right, so the reliability of a brand of car can be assessed from a sample of two ... For goodness sake. Yes I am suggesting you have been lucky, that's how statistics works, some people are 'lucky' others are 'unlucky', and the distribution tends to follow a bell curve. If you look closer at that link, you'll see that as a brand Nissan is number 27 out of 31 in the reliability stakes:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what- ... vey/n17826

So, it is poor. The top four are:

1 Suzuki 97.7%
2 Lexus 97.5%
3 Toyota 96.8%
4= Kia 95.8%
4= Mitsubishi 95.8%
4= Subaru 95.8%

So, five out of six are Japanese and one is Korean. VW is just below the middle, so much for "If everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen".

As for a 'weak clutch', either your car is faulty or (assuming a manual clutch) you need to learn clutch control.

[Andy Beats]

As for a 'weak clutch', either your car is faulty or (assuming a manual clutch) you need to learn clutch control.

Wasn't me who started this thread, so evidently not just me.
It's the ridiculous gearing VW have thrown at the car.
Whether the clutch is actually weak, only time will tell, but it 'feels' weak and the high gearing leads to it being abused.
Imagine having to pull away in second gear all the time, that's what it's like.

[Leif]

As for a 'weak clutch', either your car is faulty or (assuming a manual clutch) you need to learn clutch control.

Wasn't me who started this thread, so evidently not just me.
It's the ridiculous gearing VW have thrown at the car.
Whether the clutch is actually weak, only time will tell, but it 'feels' weak and the high gearing leads to it being abused.
Imagine having to pull away in second gear all the time, that's what it's like.

Mine has the same gearing and I have no issues. Then again my last two cars did 130,000 and 160,000 miles on the original clutch before being scrapped/sold. That said, cars do have faults. Lots of people had issues with the VW Up gear box, which was modified by VW after a couple of years.

[Andy Beats]

@the OP
It's our clutch control.

[broberty]

As someone who works at Nissan, they are not the most reliable, but definitely not the worst. They fall well behind in terms of technology though. As for Pulsar, is no longer produced in Europe. Juke is showing it's age and will be put to bed soon