Swap GTi plus for an electric VW

[RUM4MO]

No point you being in a thread about electric vehicles.
You've never driven one, you've said you're not open to them at all.
That's fine, but please leave this thread.

Mum, Dad, I've got another bite

Seriously for a minute, do you pair of muppets want reporting to Alex?

Maybe dig a bit deeper about how the Barnett formula is applied to all others of UK.

[Leif]

Mum, Dad, I've got another bite

Seriously for a minute, do you pair of muppets want reporting to Alex?

Maybe dig a bit deeper about how the Barnett formula is applied to all others of UK.

Firstly don’t call me a muppet. Verbally abusing me, and then asking if I want reporting to a moderator is bizarre.

Secondly you need to chill out. I don’t give a fig about the Barnett formula. I really don’t, my post you quoted had nothing to do with that.

And finally what do you have to say about the original question?

Actually to be honest your abuse is the final straw. When Andy Beats joined, he routinely contradicted every single post of mine in this forum. He was getting up my nose with his obnoxious know it all manner. Then he started making abuse remarks about those who voted Leave. And generally insulting me. And so on. Now I have your abuse. This forum is nasty. I was a member of the VW Up forum for six years, never any abuse. But some of you people are downright unpleasant. I’m leaving.

[barrywi]

Early days yet but as we get older we make very few long journeys. We have a big boys toy car in the garage suitable for long trips so I am in the early stages of potentially swapping the Gti for one of VWs electric cars possibly available later this year or early next. There is the iD , a golf sized car and an iD Crozz which is an electric Tiguan equivalent. The Golf sized one has 180 bhp with one motor but the Crozz has two motors with a total of 300 bhp and 4WD. My dealer says VW are trying to make these cars mass market price wise. Range has been announced( depending on battery pack size) of around 300 miles per charge.
The reason I am examining this subject so early is to see if it is worth getting an order in as soon as the books open to try and avoid the delay of six months I had when buying the Polo. I believe the new cars will not be built in South Africa thus avoiding the 8 week transport delay. I know it is early to be thinking of swapping but at the moment my Gti is the only one my dealer has sold or even had for demo so the part ex/ private sale could be generous.
Most of our journeys are less than 12 miles. We are on economy seven for electricity so overnight charges would be low.
Any comments or suggestions?

I’m struggling to see how you would benefit from an EV. Firstly you will lose money by trading in a GTI. At present an EV commands a premium due to the cost of batteries. Secondly it will take many miles before you save on petrol. I believe the Honest John web site has a page that lets you work out the cost of an EV compared to an ICE car, and for most people the EV loses. If you deliver milk, then without doubt an EV was. (And of course if you do similar driving, the EV wins.) However, a friend says his BMW EV ‘goes like stink’ and that is certainly a plus. As for feeling eco, most of our electricity is not green. But you do export the pollutants to the areas surrounding power stations where poorer people live, which for some people is a plus. (Irony alert.) And batteries are made with/from lots of toxic chemicals. So the green aspect is debatable.

Ignoring the background chatter the purpose of my thread was to examine the possibilities of going fully electric and I appreciate the constructive comments to help me formulate a decision at this research stage. I am not going headlong into a decision until facts appear about prices and ranges this year , and it may not even be 2020 before I will change.
As I am retired I have loads of time to research this subject properly...deep joy. Cut out the arguments here please, life is too short!

[stevereeves]

Genuine query: are electric charge points the same or at least similar and are owners provided with a list of convenient charge points ? Only, while I set tyre pressures the other day at a Shell garage, my father checked out the charge point and printed on it was words to the effect of "charge point for Nissan & Renault". I forget the exact brands mentioned but defo not VW, or Ford or Vauxhall probably the biggest seller in the UK....

[SRGTD]

Genuine query: are electric charge points the same or at least similar and are owners provided with a list of convenient charge points ? Only, while I set tyre pressures the other day at a Shell garage, my father checked out the charge point and printed on it was words to the effect of "charge point for Nissan & Renault". I forget the exact brands mentioned but defo not VW, or Ford or Vauxhall probably the biggest seller in the UK....

That’s a very good point Steve. I’d be very surprised though if charging points were manufacturer-specific. Could it be that the local Nissan / Renault dealerships in the area were sponsoring the charging point - either by having paid for it to be installed, or subsidising its operating costs in some way?

If charging points are specific to certain manufacturers, then that would seriously impact the flexibility of charging an electric vehicle, and would do little to entice people into electric vehicles if they could only certain use specific charging points and not others.

[RUM4MO]

Ignoring the background chatter the purpose of my thread was to examine the possibilities of going fully electric and I appreciate the constructive comments to help me formulate a decision at this research stage. I am not going headlong into a decision until facts appear about prices and ranges this year , and it may not even be 2020 before I will change.
As I am retired I have loads of time to research this subject properly...deep joy. Cut out the arguments here please, life is too short!

Exactly and the nasty racial remarks, I would/will remain very concerned about range - ie as said many time "range anxiety" maybe stupid/unfounded but I feel that way.

Ignoring all the ways that EV production massively polutes the world, probably somewhere other than in our backyards, and the cost presently, I'd love to take on an EV for all our local and a bit more transport, I'm certainly not against them - or any other form of low emissions transport which should still include hydrogen.
Maybe supplying companies are just being lazy like they have been with any improvement in petrol derv engines - no real incentive to be brave enough to try any other way out of this.
Change makes money for business, any/all change makes money for someone.
I'd think that the current batch of EVs being offered are just a knee jerk stop gap offering to allow us to consider that some progress is being made - and that just adds to my "range anxiety" - and like you an retired person, I can find other ways to reduce my "travelling emissions", anyone working does not always have that option though I'd think that quite a high percentage of the "personal transport" travelling public could give in and join the smelly masses that use public transport - I did that for my final few years at work, not nice all the time, not always convenient, but can be made possible by more people if they had to.

[RUM4MO]

Genuine query: are electric charge points the same or at least similar and are owners provided with a list of convenient charge points ? Only, while I set tyre pressures the other day at a Shell garage, my father checked out the charge point and printed on it was words to the effect of "charge point for Nissan & Renault". I forget the exact brands mentioned but defo not VW, or Ford or Vauxhall probably the biggest seller in the UK....

That’s a very good point Steve. I’d be very surprised though if charging points were manufacturer-specific. Could it be that the local Nissan / Renault dealerships in the area were sponsoring the charging point - either by having paid for it to be installed, or subsidising its operating costs in some way?

If charging points are specific to certain manufacturers, then that would seriously impact the flexibility of charging an electric vehicle, and would do little to entice people into electric vehicles if they could only certain use specific charging points and not others.

They must end up having a few standards but mainly that will be for fast charging and VW Group I think is rolling out a higher voltage system aimed at cutting down "refresh" times with still being able to use the slow chargers already in use.

[silverhairs]

Who in their right minds would go out and purchase an electric Polo @ £30,000+ ? And the government are taking away their subsidy for electric vehicles in the near future, even they cannot see a future for EV's. I don't think electric is the correct way to go? It's going to cost too much to install charging points around the country. All seems nice in theory, but?

As for threatening to reporting us then calling us "Muppets"? You may have loads of posts under your belt, but it don't give you the right to call other members "Muppets"

For your information, I've been called far worse names than that by professionals, "water of a ducks back".
But there are members who would recoil and take you remark to heart in this day and age.

I think before you report us, an apology would be in order.

[alexperkins]

For all concerned - this behaviour needs to to stop. It’s out of keeping with forum rules and the atmosphere here is becoming very fragile

Any members contravening the above will be banned and their posts removed

It’s a shame it’s come to this, but guys please get along. This is a community for collaboration. If you want an argument, find somewhere else to have it.

[barrywi]

Back to the thread.
More thoughts on charging systems.
I looked at a site about charging voltages and types of plugs needed. It reminded me of the Betamax vs VHS situation , only worse. I understand electrics but it made my brain hurt. I can see why a DC charger would make sense , but the real world works on AC so transformers would be needed on some of the fast charging systems which would need to be fairly hefty and expensive if we are talking about 150Kw points. The systems using ground based coils to avoid having to use cables however would have to be AC , as I understand it, to make it work and would be expensive to install and would need accurate car positioning for maximum efficiency. The cable choice depends on the preference of the manufacturers in terms of the number of terminals and shape to cope with different voltages and whether AC or DC charging. Their heads need knocking together to agree on a common cable type. We do not want a situation where we are all having to carry a load of adaptors around in the car . All petrol connectors are the same, as are diesels.
Pricing on charging points should be clearly marked per Kw hour as with the pricing for petrol and diesel.
I have experience through my work of Nicad ( not used for cars) and lithium ion camera batteries. The Nicad ones would develop a “memory “if you did not fully charge them after use and would also lose their charge over time , like the lead acid ones on cars. Lithium ion or similar ones are used on electric cars , not unlike re chargeable AA batteries in your tv remotes. They are better in that they do not develop a memory depending on how they are charged and hold charge well. The problem they do have in my experience is that their capacity reduces over time depending to an extent on how fast you charge you charge them. My professional camera lithium ion batteries would only charge up to 50% after about four years of daily use.
Maybe the latest ones used on electric cars have a different chemical composition to avoid this and I think they are in a sort of flat plastic bag. No news yet on what happens in an electric car which develops a bad battery, how easy it would be to change a battery pack ,and most of all what the cost would be. It could limit the cars maximum use to just ten years if they cannot be economically replaced. Are they recyclable??
Research is going on into solid state batteries and also the use of capacitors as an energy storage system. The big advantage with capacitors is that they can recharge very quickly providing the charging point can provide the current. So early days yet for them.
The conclusion I am almost coming to is that we are about two more years away from an ideal electric car that ticks all the boxes and makes them a sensible choice but whomknows what developements are just around the corner. The massive torque from zero revs of electric motors makes them attractive as performance vehicles , as does the reduction in oily mechanical bits. I think I could miss the wonderful sound coming from powerful V8 or V12 petrol engined even if it could be simulated by loudspeakers in the car.
I am not “Out of my mind” as one person suggested, just examining the facts to make a rational decision, which I believe is the sensible way to approach the subject.

[monkeyhanger]

Here's quite a good article.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electri ... ging-point

In summary, the numbers quoted mean that EVs account for only 0.52% of all cars on the road in the UK, and there's 1 non residential charger for every 9 EVs - which would be great if it was 1 for every 9 cars, if there were 10 million EVs on the road, but just shows how sparsely distributed they are with 17k non residential chargers across the country. 36% of all UK homes have no access to parking on their own property.

We are nowhere near ready for the mass ownership of EVs, unless you've got your own driveway/garage and can rely on at-home charging for the vast majority of their charging, and can do that charging outside peak grid demand hours. If you do have to do journeys beyond your car's range, you're going to have to be sure of your en-route charging choices and stomach a wait at that charger.

Subsidies for take-up of EVs are drying up as more people take advantage of a finite pot set aside. Meanwhile, these EVs are conveniently overpriced by the amount of the subsidy - every tax payer is funding that.

Early adopters are always overcompensated - the early adopters of solar panels had to pay a lot out for the kit, but were getting 40p off the grid for every kWh generated, when the going rate on your electricity bill was 10p per kWh - every other consumer of electricity is propping up that incentive.

A mate of mine got a "free" charging point fitted about 4 years ago, to future proof his house. He has no intention of getting an EV in the foreseeable - by the time he needs that charging point it will probably be obsolete. A colleague's husband is a sparky and was contracted to fit the charging points locally. In his opinion, the hardware is worth about £150 at retail, with an hour to install. Some quango is creaming off £300 on the current £500 Grant, £800 when the grant used to be £1000 per charging point.

In my mate's contract for his charging point, there is a clause that obliges him to make it available for public use if requested. How they would reimburse him for someone else using his electricity to charge their car is not clear.

[barrywi]

Thanks again for the constructive post, all useful background information. A 7 Kw connection is basically the same as a 30 amp cooker point but outside or inside a garage. Not complicated, just needs a separate breaker or independant feed from the meter with an elcb for safety.
Pricing of the incoming VW Golf electric equivalent and the 4 WD idCrozz will be interesting when announced to see how serious VW are about making their electric vehicles commonplace. I have my friendly dealer poised to let me know when he gets the knowledge but will not rush into any purchase.

[stevereeves]

"A mate of mine got a "free" charging point fitted about 4 years ago, to future proof his house.", I've heard of this too. My point was you'd prob assume all charge points & electric cars had the same fitting / connection, as I believe towbar & connections are for caravans or trailers. Something else to take into account as it wouldn't be much fun arriving at a charge point, low on volts and discover 'the hard way' you have the wrong plug or lead. Just sayin'....

[Andy Beats]

Genuine query: are electric charge points the same or at least similar and are owners provided with a list of convenient charge points ? Only, while I set tyre pressures the other day at a Shell garage, my father checked out the charge point and printed on it was words to the effect of "charge point for Nissan & Renault". I forget the exact brands mentioned but defo not VW, or Ford or Vauxhall probably the biggest seller in the UK....

That's easily explained.
Ford or Vauxhall don't make any electric vehicles.
When they do, they will use the same types of plugs as other vehicles.

[Andy Beats]

Something else to take into account as it wouldn't be much fun arriving at a charge point, low on volts and discover 'the hard way' you have the wrong plug or lead. Just sayin'....

It doesn't work like this....
Every public charge point has the ability to charge every electric car.
People don't get 'stuck' at chargers.
If you change your car to a different type of plug (like the new Leaf uses a different plug from the old Leaf) you just fit a new cable to your home charger.