Wishbone bushes need replacing

[cheba]

The existence of the gaps in the rubber portion of the bushing isn't a VW vs. Meyle thing, it is a difference between VW part 1J0 407 181 (standard bushing used on most models) and VW part 8N0 407 181B (mk4 R32/mk1 TT bushings). Both VW and Meyle supply both the version with gaps as well as the gapless version.

As the spare parts sold by Meyle and other suppliers are "OEM spec", they are supposed to be an exact replacement of the factory part and are supposed to fill the same function. So it is no surprise that parts from Meyle and similar suppliers look very similar to the factory VW parts, often with only minimal differences.

[RUM4MO]

The issue maybe with the small front bush, in normal use, if the rear bush is replaced when it needs to be, then I think that the front bush will still be intact, conversely if the rear bush escapes the attention of the MOT tester then the front bush will have ended up being abused a bit more. Also anyone doing this job not out of the need to replace a worn/damaged rear bush, but as a performance upgrade probably ends up getting the front bush replaced with something other than OEM, it always has been this way maybe driven by the fact that VW Group never have listed a replacement for that small front bush, normally, within the dealership circle, when they find a car with worn small front bushes, the official fix is to replace the wishbone assembly, just the way it is.

[veteran]

These days, the parts dept of my local VW dealership always demands the vehicle's basic description and VIN no. before they'll supply or especially order in any part of this kind, so looking ahead some years I think I might have some trouble in getting a set of 8N0 407 181B bushings from my VW dealer. With that future prospect in mind, I thought I'd google today for alternative, but hopefully trustworthy, suppliers of 8N0 407 181B. One that's turned up (or apparently so) is Febi Bilstein, selling via Amazon UK. See here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 8N0407181B

I'd be interested in others' opinions, but due to the angle of the image on that webpage and there being no showing of the other hidden side of it there seems to be no way of telling whether this is the mk4/TT type bush, ie. no gaps whatever in the rubber (from one side of the bush to the other), or whether it's just the factory-fit replacement. However, scrolling down that page to the details of the item, it's stated that it's equivalent to 8N0 407 181B. Clearly, if buying an 8N0 407 181B mk4/TT-type bush from a third party, you need to be 100% certain you're actually getting the more-solid bush, rather than just a straight copy of the OEM one that has the gaps.

If you go to that Amazon page, you'll see that Febi have provided a link to a video at top-left, on the subject of these sorts of bushings. I'd urge members to view that video, as it contains some excellent information about the whys and wherefores of these and similar rubberised suspension parts. Indeed, it rather confirms what I suspected, that if you swap the rear wishbone bush for one with more-solid rubber infill you'll almost certainly harden the ride and also cause more roadnoise to be conducted upwards into the car's shell. Febi point out in the video that if you use replacements with a different rubber profile, you'll not only inherit these side-effects but you might also cause additional strain and wear on other suspension components.

Now, I myself cannot obviously refute this one way or another, but Febi usually know what they're talking about. After all, they sell many good-quality, VW-approved parts and have a good reputation to uphold. Thus, I'll just leave members here to draw their own conclusions after viewing the video.

[RUM4MO]

Any of these voided bushes are voided all the way through, so as the image on that link is showing a solid bush I'd take it as being solid.

The way of dealing with VW or any other marque's official parts outlets are in my mind:- Option 1 - get them decide the part number by only offering them your reg number or in some cases they might still require your VIN, so if there is any issues with wrong parts being supplied it will be their problem. Option 2 use motoring forums and/or other sources to find out the part number of the parts you are choosing to fit to your car and request that they sell you over the counter or order in that or these parts, if there are any issues with the supplied parts being unsuitable then it will be your fault and if you really don't want them they might accept them back but charge you a handling fee (been there done that due to a silly error on my part). What I would never ever do is to ask for parts by number then start rabbiting on about which car I was planning to fit them to as they might just try to stop me wasting my money.

On the subject or there being a probability that replacing a compliant part with a less compliant part will cause some extra transmitted noise and harshness - that is logical and most people that fit uprated parts accept that risk, as far as transferring more wear onto other areas, yes I agree a probability, but until there appears to be a trend of people finding this happening I'd still opt for fitting these TT bushes if or when I find that the original ones are getting destroyed quickly and frequently - as I've said before, this particular bush has been in use for many many years with what it seems is without any revisions being done to it, so on the face of it, it does look like it is good enough for this application unless damaged by potholes etc, but for me, time will tell and I might need to rethink that and use the TT bushes.

Edit:- I used to worry a bit about fitting the Cupra console bushes to ordinary cars like Polo SE, I seem to remember worrying if the pin end of the wishbone might get snapped off as it was being located into a solid Cupra bush instead of the floppy voided bush - but that never happened to me.

[BalG]

Afternoon all,

Last year I had the following MOT advisory for both NSF and OSF-Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement Lower(rear bush) on my 2011 Polo 1.2 TSI 105HP. I was advised last year to change them this year, so have stumbled upon this thread. I am considering the non-voided version with part number 8N0407181B, so wanted to know people's experiences on whether this part would definitely fit my car. Comparing at the external diameters of the OEM part number - 1J0407181, they seemed to be listed between 60-60.2mm. The one I'm looking at are these https://justgermanparts.co.uk/product/a ... n0407181b/ and a phone call with them confirmed they should be straight swap, any thoughts?

Cheers,
Bal

[amer6R]

they fit
you also have meyle hd non voided version for mk4 golf...

[BalG]

they fit
you also have meyle hd non voided version for mk4 golf...

Many thanks, I'll be doing this next month funds permitting, my local Independent VW/Audi garage is charging £145 per side to replace, I also need two new front tyres, service and MOT then due in October! Just had an ABS sensor replaced yesterday! The car's feeling like a money pit atm. If it weren't for the fact my son need's the car to practice driving in, I would have sold it ages ago.

[RUM4MO]

Now that I've had the experience of replacing these rear bushes on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS 6MT last year, I would not bother going to the effort of fitting solid bushes.

The current Lemforder "correct" bushes have less voided areas than that on the originals in that 2015 Polo, and if your 2011 Polo still has its original factory fitted bushes then maybe they were even more voided than my wife's 2015 Polo factory fitted ones were. (these Lemforder bushes actually have the VW Group part number moulded into the rubber)

What I found with these bushes in my wife's 2015 Polo was, the LHS bush had already been replaced under warranty back in 2018 and it was still in excellent condition, the RHS original bush that was causing a slight problem though not yet reported on MOTs, was that the material had "compacted" and the rubber material had separated from the central steel bush and there was now an elongated circular - maybe an ellipse shaped hole - the elongation would be in the direction of "flex" that the arm and so bush makes in normal use. There was no indication of any tearing of the voided areas.

This is really just a suggestion that might save you some small bits of money in parts and leave the car as quiet as it should be in use.

[RUM4MO]

By the way, which ABS wheel sensor failed - if it was a front one, I'd think that either that side's wheel bearing is failing and so has "worn" the end of its ABS wheel sensor, or that side's wheel bearing has corrosion forming under the ABS magnetic ring which is just bonded onto the "inner" surface of the bearing - and that also wears through the plastic potting material of that ABS wheel sensor.

If you are bothered about that, then just remove that sensor and check the surface of its end "finger" - it should still be like new, if it has wear marks on it, then you know it will get into a failed state sooner than later, make sure that you or the garage has covered the top area of the ABS sensor with grease to help stop it getting bonded to the hub carrier.

[BalG]

By the way, which ABS wheel sensor failed - if it was a front one, I'd think that either that side's wheel bearing is failing and so has "worn" the end of its ABS wheel sensor, or that side's wheel bearing has corrosion forming under the ABS magnetic ring which is just bonded onto the "inner" surface of the bearing - and that also wears through the plastic potting material of that ABS wheel sensor.

If you are bothered about that, then just remove that sensor and check the surface of its end "finger" - it should still be like new, if it has wear marks on it, then you know it will get into a failed state sooner than later, make sure that you or the garage has covered the top area of the ABS sensor with grease to help stop it getting bonded to the hub carrier.

Thanks RUM4MO! Its was the right-rear ABS sensor that failed. I had been putting off repairing it, driving for at least six weeks with the ABS/Traction control/TPMS all on, albeit intermittently. Every so often I would get some weird feedback from the brake pedal when the lights were off, only for them to come on driving a few minutes down the road. Its repaired now, although I think they've only changed the sensor and not the bearing. Have watched countless YT videos citing the bearing as the culprit, so if I get another occurrence of it, and its the same side, then its most likely the cause. Can you link the details of the Lemforder bush you mentioned, as if its significantly cheaper, I may just go with them. I would like a bit of sharper steering feel as I'm running 17 inch alloys, although hindsight is telling me that solid bushes may make the ride even harsher than it already is.

[RUM4MO]

Okay, the VW original is 1J0 407 181, the Lemforder equivalent (which is the same part - supplier to VW Group) is 2111301 and that is available from ECP under item number 610440925 and is currently £18.99 before any savings if there are any right now, curiously, you or at least I could not find that by just searching for a bush for a Polo, but when I used the ECP number I had noted when I bought them for my wife's car, I found that they still stock and sell them.

Obviously there will be savings to be made if you search for that Lemforder part on ebay etc.

[amer6R]

If i may ask why dont you buy parts from websites like autodoc.co.uk? and similar?

Id recommend buying 2x new nuts, and 4 bolts for the front wishbones.

[RUM4MO]

If i may ask why dont you buy parts from websites like autodoc.co.uk? and similar?

Id recommend buying 2x new nuts, and 4 bolts for the front wishbones.

Not worth it when the total order is below the "free delivery" level - and sometimes they send out their own version of parts, which does annoy some people.

Though I have to say, I avoided buying from them recently for some front calliper guides etc for my S4, only to accidentally buy from one of their "other names" - the clue was in my Paypal receipt - the price was just a few pence cheaper than buying from a UK seller on ebay.

Edit:- I agree about only fitting new bolts and nuts, 3 nuts for the lower ball joint 1 bolt and 1 nut for the rear mounting and maybe just 1 bolt for the small mounting end.

[BalG]

Okay, the VW original is 1J0 407 181, the Lemforder equivalent (which is the same part - supplier to VW Group) is 2111301 and that is available from ECP under item number 610440925 and is currently £18.99 before any savings if there are any right now, curiously, you or at least I could not find that by just searching for a bush for a Polo, but when I used the ECP number I had noted when I bought them for my wife's car, I found that they still stock and sell them.

Obviously there will be savings to be made if you search for that Lemforder part on ebay etc.

Forgot to ask whether I should also buy a set of new nuts and bolts for the new bushes or trust the garage to supply. Can the old nuts and bolts be re-used?

[RUM4MO]

I'd always buy and use new nuts and bolts, nuts tend to be either stiff nuts or nyloc nuts, so not suitable for re-use, bolts tend to be TTY so again not a smart idea to reuse them.

But, my "used to be trusted" VAG Indie, didn't use any of the new bolts that I supplied them with when I got them to replace the engine mountings on my 2011 Audi S4 - I only discovered that this month when I started to replace the front suspension, so over a year too late to complain, they are now off my list for using! Everything that I provided them with had been officially ordered through my local Audi dealership so was all correct and was effectively a "full kit of bits" to do that job, they left me to order the mountings because one of them was on back order, that was very annoying!

Our VW main dealership carried out new car warranty on my wife's 2015 VW Polo, and as I discovered a snapped off subframe securing bolt head on my garage floor a few years later, I suspect that included in that warranty work, which was suspension noises, included attacking the TTY subframe bolts - the head that I found on the garage floor - what a fluke that it ended up there and not on the road, was "necked" as well as corroded - but the corrosion is another story and will affect all Polo/Fabia/Ibiza/A1, without these bolts having been retorqued, I'd think that they would have survived the life of the car. So I got that "used to be trusted" VAG Indie to replace them all with new genuine parts supplied by my, after checking the subframe alignment - that was a few years before the Audi S4 experience!