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Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:42 pm
by JiSingh1
I have found this now.
https://www.vw-group.pl/data/MSDS/G__052527.pdf
Version 5 of the gearbox oil - but it is in Polish.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:57 pm
by Le_Combattant
So values seems to be the same as previous version
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:27 am
by Bepis
Good find
Translation of relevant specs using Google Translate:
Pour point -51 °C
Kinematic viscosity:
27.6 mm²/s (40 °C)
Method: ASTM D 445
6.1 mm²/s (100 °C)
Method: ASTM D 445
Seems the OE stuff is quite thin and the red line MT-LV is pretty close in terms of thickness : 1 cSt = 0.01 St = 1 mm2/s.
-=====Plain text paste incase source link is removed=====-
Code: Select all
Temperatura topnienia/krzepnięcia
: Brak dostępnych danych
Temperatura płynięcia -51 °C
Początkowa temperatura
wrzenia i zakres temperatur
wrzenia
: > 280 °C
Palność (ciała stałego, gazu) : Nie dotyczy
Łatwopalność (ciecze) : Brak dostępnych danych
Górna granica wybuchowości
/ Górna granica palności
: 10 %(V)
Dolna granica wybuchowości /
Dolna granica palności
: 1 %(V)
Temperatura zapłonu : 208 °C
Metoda: ASTM D 92
Temperatura samozapłonu : > 320 °C
Temperatura rozkładu : Brak dostępnych danych
pH : substancja/mieszanina jest nierozpuszczalna (w wodzie)
Lepkość
Lepkość kinematyczna : 27,6 mm²/s (40 °C)
Metoda: ASTM D 445
6,1 mm²/s (100 °C)
Metoda: ASTM D 445
Rozpuszczalność
Rozpuszczalność w wodzie
: nierozpuszczalny
Współczynnik podziału: noktanol/woda
: Nie dotyczy
Prężność par : < 0,5 Pa (20 °C)
Gęstość : 0,851 g/cm³ (15 °C)
Gęstość względna par : Brak dostępnych danych
Charakterystyka cząstek
Rozmiar cząstek : Nie dotyczy
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:24 am
by Le_Combattant
I found other stuff by Liqui Moly this time.
Top Tec MTF 5300 70W-75W
Densité à 15 °C 0,845 g/cm³
DIN 51757
Viscosité à 40 °C 30,8 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à 100 °C 5,9 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à -55°C (Brookfield) < 150000 mPas
ASTM D 2983-09
Indice de viscosité 139
DIN ISO 2909
Point d'écoulement < -60 °C
DIN ISO 3016
Point d'inflammation 220 °C
DIN ISO 2592
Indice de couleur (ASTM) L 2,5
DIN ISO 2049
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:16 pm
by JiSingh1
Bepis wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:27 am
Pour point -51 °C
Kinematic viscosity:
27.6 mm²/s (40 °C)
Method: ASTM D 445
6.1 mm²/s (100 °C)
Method: ASTM D 445
Seems the OE stuff is quite thin and the red line MT-LV is pretty close in terms of thickness : 1 cSt = 0.01 St = 1 mm2/s.
Thanks for the translation. I was using my phone so couldn't be bothered trying to translate it & my laptop was dead and I felt too lazy to charge it lol.
Red line is great just damn expensive here.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:19 pm
by JiSingh1
Le_Combattant wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:24 am
I found other stuff by Liqui Moly this time.
Top Tec MTF 5300 70W-75W
Densité à 15 °C 0,845 g/cm³
DIN 51757
Viscosité à 40 °C 30,8 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à 100 °C 5,9 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à -55°C (Brookfield) < 150000 mPas
ASTM D 2983-09
Indice de viscosité 139
DIN ISO 2909
Point d'écoulement < -60 °C
DIN ISO 3016
Point d'inflammation 220 °C
DIN ISO 2592
Indice de couleur (ASTM) L 2,5
DIN ISO 2049
Seems great too. Seems specifically made for VW as it's the only recommendations it has. I might make a chart soon of different brands and post it here as comparison to OE.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:24 pm
by Le_Combattant
JiSingh1 wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:19 pm
Le_Combattant wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:24 am
I found other stuff by Liqui Moly this time.
Top Tec MTF 5300 70W-75W
Densité à 15 °C 0,845 g/cm³
DIN 51757
Viscosité à 40 °C 30,8 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à 100 °C 5,9 mm²/s
ASTM D 7042-04
Viscosité à -55°C (Brookfield) < 150000 mPas
ASTM D 2983-09
Indice de viscosité 139
DIN ISO 2909
Point d'écoulement < -60 °C
DIN ISO 3016
Point d'inflammation 220 °C
DIN ISO 2592
Indice de couleur (ASTM) L 2,5
DIN ISO 2049
Seems great too. Seems specifically made for VW as it's the only recommendations it has. I might make a chart soon of different brands and post it here as comparison to OE.
"Seems specifically made for VW as it's the only recommendations it has."
That's the point.
Because, many times, you have multiple application for a single oil (Toyota, VW, etc...) but for this one, only one brand is claimed.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:26 pm
by JiSingh1
These are the main ones I can find so far.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:15 am
by Le_Combattant
JiSingh1 wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:26 pm
These are the main ones I can find so far.
Well done !
It's crazy to see a viscosity of 40.8 for the Fuchs at 40°C but in pratice, it's almost butter smooth, even cold.
I can't imagine with an other one with a lower viscosity.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:14 pm
by JiSingh1
Le_Combattant wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:15 am
Well done !
It's crazy to see a viscosity of 40.8 for the Fuchs at 40°C but in pratice, it's almost butter smooth, even cold.
I can't imagine with an other one with a lower viscosity.
It's crazy though how different figures are with the same approvals too. I had to stick my mannol in there at the bottom, clearly I bought the worst one.
Problem is, some of the data is different depending where I look. If I look at the safety data sheet, it will have a different viscosity to what the product information sheet says.
For example: the Comma/Mobil oil, says 37 at 40c, but on the safety data sheet it says 35. So it may be better than Ravenol but I am not sure which is the correct figure.
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:34 pm
by Le_Combattant
Crazy to see thah from Original VW Oil to Mannol, viscosity is almost double at 40°C
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:37 am
by JiSingh1
There is a Rock Oil MTF 75W produced here in UK.
Specs are: 35 at 40c, and 6.80 at 100c. So also not bad.
What is the recommendation on gear oils with Ester, as opposed to fully pure synthetic?
Is one better than the other?
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:17 pm
by Mikeso51
I have been following this thread with some interest, and something which seems clear is that the full VW specification for their gear oil is not available. This being the case it is hard to see how the various alternative suppliers can truly claim to have products which match the VW spec. They may be able to match some basic metrics such as SAE viscosity rating, but not aspects such as the exact kinematic viscosity or the "secret" additive package.
I have done some internet research, and to my surprise I find that individual SAE gear oil ratings cover a surprisingly span of kinematic viscosities. For example, as the chart below shows, the SAE 75W rating covers kinematic viscosities (40 degree C) ranging from around 25 cS/m2 to 50 cS/m2. This might explain why the various alternative gear oil suppliers can claim to match the VW spec when in fact they are only matching the SAE rating.
Just some food for thought
Mike
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Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:28 pm
by JiSingh1
Mikeso51 wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:17 pm
I have been following this thread with some interest, and something which seems clear is that the full VW specification for their gear oil is not available. This being the case it is hard to see how the various alternative suppliers can truly claim to have products which match the VW spec. They may be able to match some basic metrics such as SAE viscosity rating, but not aspects such as the exact kinematic viscosity or the "secret" additive package.
The latest specification is the one I posted recently, but it's in polish and still doesn't include everything but might be a good start point if we can figure out which bits are the additives etc.
I'm thinking of trying out the Millers oil - however whatever I put in now needs to last me another 2 years before I get rid of the car, don't want to keep changing it:/
Re: Gearboxes, gear oil, and levels
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:52 am
by JiSingh1
Do people think additives or viscocity matters more?
e.g. - the Fuchs has the same additives / chemicals as the original oil, but is thicker.
The miller oils are thinner but not the same additives...
SOO, Opinions?