UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum

OK, so we've all seen the news today about the motorway network. Just watching the debate on Newsnight, and getting very confused by the glaring hole in our friend Alistair "scary eyebrows" Darling's argument.

New roads are, in thereself good news (well not for the value of my house, but that's another story) -- but what is your opinion of the road charging aspect.

Here's my take - Livingstone's London experiment is being held up as the example (no suprises there, then) - citing a 20% reduction in traffic after congestion was introduced. However, that's because there was a viable public service alternative -- tube and bus. Plus the ability of car users to find other modes of transport - scooters and bikes (you wouldn't believe how full the m/c parking bays are in central London now). However, the number of journeys being made has not reduced.

I ask - how could this outcome of charging possibly be replicated in inter-city travelling. The journeys still have to be made, and people simply will not use trains to any greater extent than they already are. Trains are already running way over capacity, with no sign of any improvement. Air travel is an affordable alterantive - but not for spontaneous journeys or journeys made btwn places not near airports. Plus if you add the cost of the taxi either end (which will increase with road charging) the affordability of air starts to dissappear.

So, surely congestion charging will just turn into another tax - with no affect on traffic growth - simply because there's no viable alternative. Imposing yet more tax will not remove these journeys. The price elasticity of demand for personal car use is absolutely huge.

Let's not even think about the potential that a GPS charging system would have for imposing speed limits _everywhere_ - not to mention the privacy concerns.

Think about the M6 relief road - everyone will use that because of the improvement to journeys it will make - the toll will just act as a tax and won't stem growth in journey numbers in any way. Besides although this is also being cited as a way of charging for raods, it was never implemented to contol journey numbers, it was simply to provide the revenue part of the PFI scheme.

I'd be interested in what guys think of this situation.

Deek.
(I get annoyed when people make illogical arguments... Grrrr.... )

>>Edited 10/07/03 for grammar.

Hi Deek

I didn't see the news yesterday, but personally, I wouldn't mind tolls on Motorways, as long as our Road Fund Licence fee is significantly reduced.

(Calling Ash, Calling Ash... That's how it is in France, isn't it?)

My road tax is currently over £90 for 6 months, which I think is an outrage.

It all depends on how much you use the motorway network... You could end up paying far more than £90 in 6 months, so it might not be such a good idea for some "Road Warriors".

Interesting...

ok then josh hers how it works in france
when i bought my polo i payed a "registration fee" which is directly proportunal to the number of fiscal horse power you have (thats why the 2 ch is called so, its 2 fiscal hp and hp in french is cheval = cv hence 2 CV) now without looking it all up i think my 1.4 is 5 or 6 fiscal hp so i had to pay the rate which was about 90 quid iirc, now this 90 quid means that the vehicle is now registered in my name and i may drive it for as long as i wish on public roads free of charge, so if i kept my polo for 100 years then id pay 90p per year yay
however in france a lot of the roads are built by private contracters (after winning a franchise form th local authoritys/government) so theese roads are the private roads (usually moterways) so since theres no road tax to pay over here they could never got their money back if they didnt charge. soo,,, you pay to use the motorways* meaning:
to go to the first petrol station on the local m-way costs me £3 in tolls even though its only about 15 miles on the m-way
and when i went to inters it cost me the best part of £80 EACH WAY

*some tolls are rumored to have number plate recognition meaning thet if you speed and get to the toll faster than you should be able too then they have due reason to stop/follow you however this is rumor at the moment

and did i mention the new tyre of speed guns they tested in my home town that are now being implimented all over europe? they have a range of over a mile, with deadly accuracy and even at a mile off they can see if your on your moblie !!!

personally i wouldn't mind paying road tolls instead of road tax.

the thing that annoys me most is that we pay this money for the upkeep of our roads.... which are in an absolutly terible state.

If the government are listening - i have no objection to paying either toll or tax - but i want to see a drastic improvement in the condition of our roads and public publishing of how every penny is spent.