GTI Handling

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:15 pm

Hi all,

Love the forum - a wealth of information I could spend hours going through!

I'm a new member; recently bought a 2001 Polo GTI, 5 door, with 19k on the clock. Fantastic little car. I previously owned a Volvo S40 T4 and then an S60 T5, but in all honest, the Polo is more 'fun' (although slower).

However, I'm looking to improve handling. Specifically, I think it lacks sharpness (doesn't feel 'tight' like an Integra/Civic Type-R/Mini for example), and there is a considerable amount of roll. I don't want to lower the car too much either.

What can i do? I've thought of (from looking at other posts):

1. 30mm drop front & rear with Eibach stiffer springs. Would it make much difference to handling lower front by 50mm using the Pro kit, or is this just for looks?

2. Upgraded front anti-roll bar - does this exist?

3. Toyo Proxes all around.

4. wider wheels/tyres? Currently on stock BBS 195/45/15.

Basically, I want the best possible handling from the car. Any suggestions much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Afzal

MaxZ · Post by **MaxZ** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:18 pm

drop it on aftermarket shocks, that would make a hell of a difference

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:21 pm

Thanks MaxZ, I didn't think about that.

So far, I have:

1. Upgraded springs (Eibach) - is 30mm enough? i'm not too interested in looks, just want better handling.
2. Upgraded shocks (Eibach?)
3. Upgraded anti-roll bar if it exists (i found one for Polo 9n,not 6n)
4. New tyres

Any suggestions to the above?

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:35 pm

Just looking at a Koni suspension kit with adjustable shocks.

Does anyone know if this is a good kit? Also, what is the advantage of adjustable shocks over non-adjustable? Does a firmer ride mean better handling?

I've seen the kit on venommotorsport for Â£300 ex. vat.

Redline · Post by **Redline** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:10 pm

With regards to a firmer ride, depends where you're planning to drive it. If you're using it on a smooth race track then firmer suspension is obviously an advantage.

However if you're using it on the road, having the suspension as stiff as possible will limit the cars ability to absorb bumps and imperfections in the road. So ideally you need some suppleness in the suspension to deal with this, and adjustable shocks will allow you to set the car up as you think best.

mk4 glx 1.6 · Post by **mk4 glx 1.6** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:15 pm

afzalmj wrote: 1. Upgraded springs (Eibach) - is 30mm enough? i'm not too interested in looks, just want better handling.
2. Upgraded shocks (Eibach?)
3. Upgraded anti-roll bar if it exists (i found one for Polo 9n,not 6n)
4. New tyres

Hiya.

Everyone has their own opinion obviously. but if you want good handling you don't want to lower the car so that the front wishbones are inverted, this creates bump steer, which many people who are 'slammed' mistake for good handling.

1. Yes imo -30 is enough to improve the handling. If you are only concerned with looks, yes go lower, but for practicality and to maintain good handling -30 is enough (with stiffer shocks).

2. eibach don't make upgraded shocks for the 6n2, otherwise I would be using them !

3. Yes a thicker front ARB is available, but imo it will only increase understeer. I am thinking of adding a rear ARB to mine to dial this out, one for an Ibiza mk3 is meant to fit., but I need to make sure before proceeding.

4. New tyres will be good, but I personally would stay away from Toyo's. They need heat in them to give good grip. I have them on the front of mine and grip has been awful over the winter in wet/damp conditions. GSD3's are a better all round tyre imo (which I have on the rear).

Wider wheels will also help to improve the handling. But if possible find out the wheel weights before purchasing, don't just go on looks as a lot of alloys will be a heavier than the BBS (8.5kg each), therefore increasing unsprung weight. I changed my BBS (6J) for 7J alloys without increasing the weight per corner. Stretching the tyre that bit more means there is less tyrewall flex.

I wanted to improve the handling on mine without sacrificing everyday practicality. I fitted Bilstein B8 dampers, these are twin tube on the fronts and mono-tube on the rears, and along with Eibach Pro-Kit springs I am very happy with the handling (when dry) !! Although when funds allow will probably have powerflex bushes fitted and go for a rear ARB.

The koni kit would be a very good option, although personally I would fit the Eibach springs as opposed to those supplied by Koni.

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:18 pm

Thanks redline. So adjustable shocks seem the way to go.

I'm between Eibach springs+shocks and Koni springs+shocks. Which of the kits are better for handling, ignoring cost?

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:22 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply, mk4.

I never considered mixing the two...so in theory, I could have 4 Eibach springs and 4 koni adjustable shocks?

I would've prefered Eibach all round, but seeing as they don't make shocks, Koni shocks will have to do.

I have michelin sx's on there at the moment; they still have plenty of tread left so i think i'll leave those for now

mk4 glx 1.6 · Post by **mk4 glx 1.6** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:31 pm

afzalmj wrote:I never considered mixing the two...so in theory, I could have 4 Eibach springs and 4 koni adjustable shocks?

No problem. Yes absolutely no reason why you can't combine the above, it is a well known good handling combo for a lot of cars.

I may be wrong but don't think they make the michelin sx's any more, i think they were the OE tyre. When the time comes to change, if you like Mich's, I can recommend the Exalto PE2's highly.

When I was considering the Koni kit, the cheapest place I saw it was www.larkspeed.com for Â£385 delivered, but if you have found it cheaper then great.

Let us know what you decide and how you get on.

Marc.

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:37 pm

I've found it slightly cheaper on venom motorsport.

Thanks for your input; i'll have a think about whether to go for a mixed set-up or completely Koni. Right now, i'm more for the mixed set-up, but I'll try to do a little more research before I make a firm decision.

I'm eager to know by *how much* will it improve the handling too! If anyone has improved handling and lives close to Slough, I'd really appreciate a 'demo'

Any other suggestions welcome!

Redline · Post by **Redline** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:44 pm

Some good advice there Marc. I've been looking at changing to aftermarket dampers on mine when funds allow.

One other thing to maybe consider in terms of handling is lightweight wheels. I've ran 15" OZ Racing Superleggeras on my GTi in the past. These have the advantage of weighing only 4.9Kgs each which reduces unsprung weight. Also they're 7" wide. Swapping from them to the 16" BBS split rims you can feel the difference.

Oh and finally, front upper and lower strut braces are avaliable for the GTi. I've got the OMP front upper one fitted, I did have the lower one but never got round to fitting it.

polo_gti21 · Post by **polo_gti21** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:58 pm

jamex coillies are resonable price i paid 300 for mine and its made wounders to handling plus got toyo proxies T-1s all round check pvw mag for these kits or try midland vw. i live close to slough (hayes)

afzalmj · Post by **afzalmj** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:52 pm

OK, I'll add a (atleast upper front) strut brace to the list!

I considered coil overs, but I'm not looking to spend fantastic amounts on parts. I've read that coilovers are good for extreme lowering of the car, and that handling can be improved significantly with just a good suspension kit.

So far i have:
1. Front upper strut brace
2. Eibach springs + Koni adj. shocks *OR* Koni springs+ adj. shocks, -30mm drop
3. Toyo's all round on next change
4. Light weight wheels, 7" wide (assuming 195's will fit on this) as apposed to stock BBS 6" wide rims.
5. Possible Ibiza front ARB.

ModifiedMadness · Post by **ModifiedMadness** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:37 pm

mk4 glx 1.6 wrote:4. New tyres will be good, but I personally would stay away from Toyo's... I have them on the front of mine and grip has been awful over the winter in wet/damp conditions.

I'd agree there, the grip in the wet isn't the greatest, infact it is still very easy to slip and slide in the wet. They do look wicked though

mk4 glx 1.6 · Post by **mk4 glx 1.6** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:35 am

afzalmj wrote: 3. Toyo's all round on next change
4. Light weight wheels, 7" wide (assuming 195's will fit on this) as apposed to stock BBS 6" wide rims.
5. Possible Ibiza front ARB.

3. As said above, I really would steer clear of the Toyo's, Goodyear GSD3's are much better for little Â£ extra. But each to their own.
4. Yes 195's will fit with no issues on a 7 or 7.5 inch rim
5. The Ibiza ARB I was referring to was for the rear, please read my comments above about fitting a larger front ARB.