Tailgate lock - any tips re fixing?

[capo]

Yesterday my Mum unlocked her driver's door, went to the boot, but couldn't open the boot door. Her Polo 9N has central locking (but not remote central locking). After a while I got the tailgate to reluctantly open, directly with the key in the tailgate lock, by turning the key leftways.

When I motioned the tailgate door upwards and downwards with my own arms, I could hear a rattle... something in the door card which sounded like a piece had broken off.

This morning I removed the Polo's tailgate door card.. and found that rattle had been caused by a small bolt/screw which had worked its way away.

The screw seems to have been holding down that white component in the first picture. There is another screw to that component which also feels loose. I think I'd have to undo the entire section to have access to tighten them back in again.

I wondered if anyone could see the next step as to how I'd have to go about fix this tailgate lock?









For the record, if it helps anyone else, to remove the tailgate door card, I unscrewed 2 small screws (one each at the bottom of each lift handles), got a flat blade screwdriver and worked it into the side of the door card (at the far side of the trim) until a bit of give and lifted, - left the screwdriver there in position - got another flat blade screwdriver and worked it in at the other far side of the door card till a bit of give and lift... same again in a couple of areas.. then pulled down with a bit of controlled pressure from top of the window side.

[capo]

Well I've got it all working again. I'm not 100% happy with my fix, but am going to try and improve upon it tomorrow.

Yesterday I rang a VW dealership... and they said their rate is £85ph + VAT, and that it'd be 30 minutes labour for inspection, and they'd also try to work on the fix within that time, if they could do so.

Then I range a VW Specialist/Independent (£55 ph) who I've used before, and to my gratitude, they said that whilst they were really busy, I could bring it down today and they'd run an eye over it.. to try and see what the problem was. They said if they might be able to fix it there and then if it's something simple, or give me the part number of what I'd need, if it was easy to self repair.

Going to the VW Specialist/Indy today, they were true to their word, and one of the head mechanics/joint owners came and gave it a look. He said he'd not actually worked on this section before on a Polo.. not had any fails in for that before. He began to take the main bracket away (black torx screws).. but then realised the bracket wouldn't fall simply away.. that it was slightly more complicated to remove. That access to where the small bolt holding the white component had fallen out - to put it back in tightly - was restricted.

However.. he did explain to me that the white (solenoid?) component, the protruding arm of it with the square head... when you do your central locking to open.. that square head moves and extends outwards to push on the latch, which inturn applies the necessary push on other bits to unlock the tailgate lock.

This was something I wasn't aware of.



Anyway back home, I removed the black torx screws of the bracket, removed the final screw that was holding down the white component (solenoid) which allowed abit of access to get the other screw in. There is no real space to work in, screwing it in from above, so I did it with my finger, getting the screw back in - but not as tightly as I'd like. Then replaced the other screw to secure the white component (solenoid) but again not as tightly as I'd like... but resulting in it back in position and not hanging off.

Result being it now all works again. Before when the tailgate lock wasn't unlocking when unlocking the driver's door or passenger door.... presumably the protruding arm/head of the white component was missing the latch. Or maybe the protruding head touched it but because only held with one screw didn't apply the necessary push and slipped away on the latch.

For reference, when I removed the white component completely and took it indoors whilst having a break for coffee, there was a part number code on the otherside of it = 380 959 781 C (We have a year 2006 Polo 9n).

One thing did occur to me after I'd got it working again.. (although I'm not 100% certain and I'm going to look at it again before putting the tailgate card back). Because I automatically presumed VW had fitted this white component as it logically should be fitted, I also tried to replace the small holding bolts back into the white component from above - the same way both bolt had been fitted originally. And the length of the bolts holding the white component are small.. about 1.5 cm in length. And access there was awkward unless you knew how to undo everything. Undoing the bracket only gave a little extra access.. but it didn't fully come away cause there is other stuff.

However, when I found the central locking was working the tailgate again... I used my own brain, and realised that the 2 threads for the bolts seem to run through the entire white component with no interruption (where you can see the brass bits are on the bottom of white component).

So tomorrow I'm thinking of removing the small 1.5cm bolts which are just are holding the white component in place from above, but will soon loosen up again in the future... and getting some much longer bolts of the same thread size, and fitting it in from the bottom side where access would be really easy. Maybe I'm overlooking something but that seems to make much more sense to me and hopefully should make for a much more lasting and tighter fit of the white component.

[RUM4MO]

I would hop ethat you will find that the only threaded part of the actuator fixing holes will be the brass ferrules - the rest as you said will just be an access hole for the fixing screws. One idea to keep the screws in would be to buy some thread locking paste or Loctite if you can find any in Halfords etc - just buy the blue stuff as that will be strong enough to stop these screws loosening. Getting the cover back on with out breaking off any clip mounting lugs can be a real night mare especially in colder weather.

[capo]

I would hop ethat you will find that the only threaded part of the actuator fixing holes will be the brass ferrules - the rest as you said will just be an access hole for the fixing screws. One idea to keep the screws in would be to buy some thread locking paste or Loctite if you can find any in Halfords etc - just buy the blue stuff as that will be strong enough to stop these screws loosening. Getting the cover back on with out breaking off any clip mounting lugs can be a real night mare especially in colder weather.

Brass ferrules - ok.

I've just had a look through my draw of bits and pieces and don't have any bolt long enough to do what I wanted. I've tried a bolt 25mm in length, and sure enough it takes to the thread of the actuator/white box from underneath immediately, screwing in nicely... but I reckon I'll need 2 x 40mm length, and then 2 nuts to place on the top side of the bolt as it comes through. Bought some on ebay and so now waiting for delivery.

That's a good idea for applying some locking paste RUM4MO - thanks. I think I have some already. When I get the new longer bolts, if all goes well, I think I'll apply some to the top of the bolt just before I apply the final bit of turn, and at the nut side (the side the original very small bolts were screwed in from).

Oh-oh. I wasn't looking forward to putting the cover/trim back on and now you've confirmed it can be tricky. Figured it was going to be more difficult that it's removal. Think I will follow your advice and not try fitting it on a cold day.

[capo]

It just occurred to me to watch/and video the white box (actuator/solenoid?) from within the car before it got too dark. I figure the more info, the better help it would be if someone else finds they get the same problem in the future. My Mum locked the driver's door (with me inside), then unlocked it, then opened the tailgate.

https://www.youtube*.com/watch?v=dK1A5Tw_gas
Short video: 15 seconds.

By the time the tailgate is lifted though, the white shoot-out button has returned to it's original position. Hope those bolts arrive tomorrow.. want to get it properly secured, the tailgate card back on, and not be concerned about it anymore.

[RUM4MO]

I thought that I had replied to your previous posting last night - but it seems to have been lost in the ether - maybe just as well as it was a bit tooooo long and generally only covered an annoying incident I had with my daughter's "previous to this 9N platform" model of Ibiza - same problem sore hands due to hard plastic cover!! Calling that assembly an actuator is okay but I don't think that it is technically a solenoid - you may have heard it whirring so I'd reckon that it is a motor that runs out that plunger then drives it back in - a solenoid is just a pin etc with a strong electro magnet surrounding it, so when you actuate it, it shoots out rapidly and returns under the control of a return spring. Solenoids tend to be yesterday's answer for car door releases, but they do tend to use a bit much power, which can quickly lead to flattening the battery if operated a lot without running the car's engine (as I discovered once with a Ford - after sorting the lock and "working" the new oil/grease in to prove that I'd fixed it!!!!). I see a similar posting to your one on the 9N section - it must be catching!

[capo]

Thanks for that explanation about solenoids and actuators, and the tech/power information. Honestly that's interesting. I was feeling a bit uncertain about calling it a solenoid. I now think VW call it a step-motor/actuator(?)

Hmm. I'll make sure I put thick gloves on too when coming to put the tailgate cover back on and be careful as possible. Could do without breaking ours and the extra costs that would bring.

Hah. I've just gone and found the post you were referring to in the other forum section. Quite a coincidence. On the surface those symptoms do sound very similar to the problem I had without our central-locking/tailgate lock. I was beginning to think that maybe they'd run out of the correct size bolt when fitting that actuator box on to just our particular car in the factory, but maybe quite a few more circa 2006 models all have that size bolt/fitting to hold it in position. If so, it's insufficient in my opinion for a lasting secure hold.

For a little while I did manage to access the ELSA workshop data the other day, and whilst there looked up the tailgate lock info. They had data/info for (9N with my year/engine code data ect - without central locking and those with central locking)

It pretty much confirmed my view that to fully remove the bracket to get access, so as to put the small bolts in from the top side, and then torque them up tighter than I can do with the whole bracket in position... is pretty fiddly. Not too difficult but something I'd prefer to avoid if possible. That's why I'm hoping the longer bolts from the bottom side with nuts to hold will work. It only needs a working solution, even if it's different than the factory solution.

Image below is from a series of images, with a running explanation on how to remove/refit - but I can't include the whole workshop process on an open forum. At least the image gives an overview of what is involved if you wanted to get full access to put the actuator (white box) bolts back in from the top-side.

Although I'm still doubting that even if you removed the bracket entirely, with the greater access space, whether the original small bolts can be torqued that much. No, I didn't remove the bracket entirely so can't be totally sure how tight you could get the little bolts, but even so best I could get is a nip tight on one and the other spinning no matter how much I try and work it in with my finger / superslim 1/4" drive ratchet which was near impossible to use due to access.





For extra info, when replacing those 4 black torx screws, this is the recommendation: "8Nm. When installing, first-screw in the two middle bolts." (See no.5 in the pic.)

[capo]

Pic below is from a Golf MK4. I'm linking to that pic from a forum discussion elsewhere about a different problem.

Ignore the white arrow in the pic and the question marks - what I'm looking at is the white actuator component on the right of the pic, and those secure looking long bolts which hold it on. They run all the way down and out.



When I get the bolts I've ordered (grr not arrived yet) I'll remove the original bolts I've temporarily put back in position to re-hold our Polo 9n actuator, take a pic of the original bolts against the removed actuator and put the pic up here. The originals I had to deal with are so puny in comparison to the ones in the photo above... no length at all. Maybe they did run out at the factory of the correct size/length bolts on the day/week/month they were building our Polo 9n, because the bolts they've used are not appropriate for the job imo.

[RUM4MO]

Yes, these Golf actuator fixing bolts/screws do seem to be a bit generous - to put it mildly - maybe this owner also had some previous trouble with his/her bolts!

[Eddie9n]

Hi, sounds like were having a very similar annoying problem, (I have the post on mine in the 9n section) although I do think that my problem is slightly different than yours. I took my boot cover off to see if it was the same problem
as what you had, although it seems as though it isn't. My actuator is all okay looking and attached with the bolts fine. But when I sit on the tail gate thing and pull the lever on the boot to see if I can see what the problem is, nothing happens. I have been told on my previous post that it could be something to do with the wiring or the actuator it's self although all the wiring looks ok and the actuator also looks okay. I had a quick look on eBay to see if there were any actuators but couldn't see any. As you are having a very simular problem, I am hoping that you can help my sort mine out as you can understand it's very annoying. Many thanks Ed

[capo]

Yes, these Golf actuator fixing bolts/screws do seem to be a bit generous - to put it mildly - maybe this owner also had some previous trouble with his/her bolts!

It's very possible RUM4MO but my view is that the bolts should be that length as standard for added hold.

The two small bolts in the centre of the photo below were the original bolts holding my white actuator box into position. They were bolted in to the white actuator box from above, and to me, allowed too much vibration and didn't have enough length. Certainly one of those small bolt did work it's way free from position which was the cause of my problem with the Polo.



The longer bolt to the right of the two small bolts is an example of the same size of the new bolts I used to fix the actuator back in position, but from underneath, with a nut on the top-side. (Bolts were definitely M4 size, but I can't remember if I used two M4 x 35mm or two M4 x 40mm)

RUM4MO, I was in two-minds whether to follow your tip and apply some thread-locking-solution. I did already have some in a draw and I got it out ready to use.. but when I began fixing my new bolts (from underneath) with a nut on top, I was pretty confident it would hold like that. It's held very firmly in position now. It was a good idea though - thanks. I just think it'll hold as is, and also allows me easy removal if the white actuator box were to ever fail in the future and need replacing.





Also it was nice, warm and sunny when refitting the trim (waited for those weather conditions) and I'm relieved it all went back on very smoothly. It cruised through it's MOT yesterday without problem. Thanks. [PS Eddie.. just give me a while to try and think-over what the problem you are having is, and consider possible solutions.]

[RUM4MO]

If you used nyloc nuts it should be okay, I'm glad to hear refitting the trim went okay - maybe VW changed things a bit since the earlier 9N Polo. MOT without any advisories, well that is always a good result!

[capo]

If you used nyloc nuts it should be okay, I'm glad to hear refitting the trim went okay - maybe VW changed things a bit since the earlier 9N Polo. MOT without any advisories, well that is always a good result!

It's possible the design has been changed. I did have a workshop image how-to for the rear trim, but can't find it at the moment. Removal and replacement. I'll look again later. It's not all sunshine though. Found out last week the radiator was definitely leaking coolant. I thought the drop could be explained by G12 shrinking due to the cold weather over Winter, but it was definitely leaking. It's been fixed for now with one of those stop-leak fluid solutions. I wasn't happy as I don't expect lots of issues on a 4 year old car. Friendly VW specialist said it'd be a few hundred pounds for the radiator and the fitting but reckoned I'd be better with the sealant stuff for the time being and that it'd do the job for the foreseeable future. So for it to go through the MOT without the tester failing it on anything was a relief. Had the MOT at an Nationwide Autocentre as well. £27, half price because made the booking online. First time I've used them and that was useful money to save on the MOT tbh as money is a bit tight at the moment.

[capo]

Hi, today I went out to wash my car. Tried to open the boot to empty it, and it wouldn't open. I thought that the problem could be with the central locking pump but the passenger door unlocks fine with the drivers door. When I unlock the car you can hear the usual sound of it unlocking but when you pull the lever it does nothing. I managed to open the boot by using the key, but it is rather annoying and would like it working again. I have tried using the search function to find out what's wrong but had no success. If anyone could shed some light on my problem it would be welcomed. Thanks Ed

Hi, sounds like were having a very similar annoying problem, (I have the post on mine in the 9n section) although I do think that my problem is slightly different than yours. I took my boot cover off to see if it was the same problem
as what you had, although it seems as though it isn't. My actuator is all okay looking and attached with the bolts fine. But when I sit on the tail gate thing and pull the lever on the boot to see if I can see what the problem is, nothing happens. I have been told on my previous post that it could be something to do with the wiring or the actuator it's self although all the wiring looks ok and the actuator also looks okay. I had a quick look on eBay to see if there were any actuators but couldn't see any. As you are having a very simular problem, I am hoping that you can help my sort mine out as you can understand it's very annoying. Many thanks Ed

Eddie, I've been thinking over what you posted. I'm really not a car mech-tech whatsoever, but I'll make suggestions on things I'd try in that situation.

How about you try what I did.. go inside the car, on the rear seat, and ask someone else to try the tailgate handle.. just so you've got a better overview.

I don't think sitting on the rear bumper with the tailgate open, and then trying the handle, is enough to get the white box actuator to work - even if it was in perfect working condition. I might be wrong though. I'd view it from inside, with the tailgate closed, having someone else try the tailgate handle, just to make sure. Like I did in that video, https://www.youtube*.com/watch?v=dK1A5Tw_gas . If the white connecting piece does fire out from that white box, maybe it's not connecting properly to it's target, or not extending out as far as it should.

Are you sure the connector is properly connected. Have you tried disconnecting it (press in on the tabs of the black connector), and then firmly reconnecting it?

Disconnect it any have a look at the prongs the connection point of the white box actuator. No interference or anything bent/rusted? I'd also just try a light pull with your fingers on each of those three wires, to see whether any are loose. With the same approach, a friend was trying to track a fault with his car recently and found that one of the wires had come loose of the connector. There's probably more sophisticated ways of finding that out though.

If it isn't firing out to connect at all... I'd have someone try the tailgate handle again, a few times, whilst from inside the car I used the handle/head of a screwdriver to give the white actuator box a few light taps from inside the boot area. A bit barbaric maybe but maybe it could encourage something within it back to life. Used to work on my old alternator.

I did feel the urge to try and open the white box actuator when I removed it but a lot of tabs on it holding it down pretty firmly. I'm not sure what else to suggest. If you do need a replacement white box actuator thingy, I hope you can get one cheap. If it's a problem with the wiring, I'm really out of my depth on wiring. I'd look further into RUM4MO's suggestions in his earlier reply to you in the other part of the forum. I'll also do some more searching to see if I can narrow down anything else which might be of use. Good luck.

Maybe you should have a look at the slightly newer Polo section in this forum - someone is having a similar problem, although the root cause of your problem could be differant to that one. If your actuator is still mounted okay - can you hear it operating? - if you can it will probably have fallen off like the posting I am refering to, if there is no noise at all, then its either a wiring problem - probably in the section of cabling that flexes when the hatch is opened - or an actuator failure - or a CCM failure. Does it work when you try to release the boot while the car is locked - ie by using the boot release button? - just in case there is a separate "command" path in the CCM for that function.

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a fuse covering this function, but if there is, I'd doubt if it would fail in normal use and replacing it would solve everything - I'd reckon if that is the case than some thing is faulty - check to see what else covers that fuse to see if any thing else is not working (and may have caused this fuse to fail).

[capo]

I just had a friend access ETKA stuff for my VIN, Engine Code, Transmission Code.

It seems they call that white box thingy a "servomotor remote control." (item #33 in the diagram)

Eddie, this might be of interest to you. It seems the connecting piece, (item #34 in the diagram - the part which shoots out) can be bought alone.

Presumably to replace broken ones in the original unit? I don't know how a person would go about opening that box and fitting it. I'm just mentioning it in case it's only that part which could be broken on yours? I don't know how much a new servomotor remote control is, nor just that connecting piece.



Note: It would see the original factory fitted bolts to hold the "servomotor remote control" white box in position are officially M4 x 10mm (#35 in the diagram) to secure the "servomotor remote control" in position. That tallies with same size bolts which were in mine originally (before one dropped out).

Mine were missing the lock washers (#36) as per the diagram.