UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum

Well I've had another little search and not really been successful in finding any more information. There seemed to be a flurry of information around 2015 and very little since then. It's all a bit odd. I would have expected more folk to be running into this issue as the cars become older and mileage increases?

Also how do you interpret this information?

I agree with you. It's really weird that this argument is not much discussed on forums online.

Regarding that picture, I've never been able to completely figure out the meaning of those values.
I only understood that the lower the values the better.
Those values differ from engine to engine: they depend on how the timing chain has been installed and the engine's timing has been set.

When I installed the Kit B the first time in 2015 those values changed from the previous ones.
Then, when I installed again the Kit B in 2017, those valued changed again.
So, they certainly depend on the timing chain elongation and on the engine's timing.
And they slowly increase as the timing chain stretches.
When the values increase of about 5-6° respect to the inital values, it means the timing chain has elongated too much, so it's better to replace the timing chain.

Since I installed the Kit B in 2017, I drove about 30.000km and those values increased of about 0,75-1,0°.
If the increasement will continue at this speed, I will have to replace again the timing chain when I'll have driven 150-180.000km with this timing chain.
That is more than enough for me to feel safe driving this car as much as I want without any kind of anxiety.

Just me butting in again!

SkodaParts seem to sell a kit without giving a part number, just a kit suitable for these engines with the wording "pre2011 engines will need all the parts supplied to be fitted" - and it seems to include the extra crankshaft sprocket!

So, it could be, that in other parts of the world, this issue is so well known about that certain Skoda parts outlets are making up an "extended" kit to replicate the work that Jay-Jay did to his car second time round - or at least giving owners of the early engines the option to improve them.

There is someone on the Skoda forum who has ordered a kit from SkodaParts and I have asked him to tell us the full part numbers of all the parts in the kit - obviously this when done will allow us to see if all these parts are genuine Skoda parts and if the extra sprocket is the newer crankshaft one.

By the way, there is an area in the SkodaParts website ordering form to ask questions.

I still get the idea that in UK at least, people are just fitting the "A" kit to early engines and the "B" to later engines, so maybe that is why there is very little in the way of discussion going on in these forums.

Also these engines will get less "attention" than the 1.4TSI Twincharger, where sorting them out correctly is normally the intention - but with many of these 1.2TSI chain driven engines, getting the car running and back in use is the only intention, I don't mean that in a bad way, just the way things are maybe.

Jay-Jay wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:30 pm I agree with you. It's really weird that this argument is not much discussed on forums online.

Regarding that picture, I've never been able to completely figure out the meaning of those values.
I only understood that the lower the values the better.
Those values differ from engine to engine: they depend on how the timing chain has been installed and the engine's timing has been set.

Same here. I have seen the X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge numbers quoted in several post with no real explanation of what the values actually mean. I agree with you that the general view is that the lower the numbers the better! those who have "chain rattle" generally have much larger values. Also the values appear to increase as the miles/time increase.

I had a look on the VCDS/Ross-Tech forums, I even downloaded the manual but could not find any information on how to interpret the values. I have yet to investigate which ECU/Software version my car has anyway.

EDIT:- Just checked. SIMOS 10.2

RUM4MO wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 6:53 pm Just me butting in again!

SkodaParts seem to sell a kit without giving a part number, just a kit suitable for these engines with the wording "pre2011 engines will need all the parts supplied to be fitted" - and it seems to include the extra crankshaft sprocket!

So, it could be, that in other parts of the world, this issue is so well known about that certain Skoda parts outlets are making up an "extended" kit to replicate the work that Jay-Jay did to his car second time round - or at least giving owners of the early engines the option to improve them.

There is someone on the Skoda forum who has ordered a kit from SkodaParts and I have asked him to tell us the full part numbers of all the parts in the kit - obviously this when done will allow us to see if all these parts are genuine Skoda parts and if the extra sprocket is the newer crankshaft one.

By the way, there is an area in the SkodaParts website ordering form to ask questions.

I still get the idea that in UK at least, people are just fitting the "A" kit to early engines and the "B" to later engines, so maybe that is why there is very little in the way of discussion going on in these forums.

I noticed that while searching a little while back, not sure if I mentioned it.

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/ ... 25113.html

The little "For vehicles manufactured before 10/2011, it is necessary to replace all components contained in the set!" sounds like a clue!!

However! when I used the IFinterface that Jay-Jay kindly pointed me at. All the every vehicle with the CBZB engine that I looked at from 2010 on (Yeti, Fabia, Roomster) ALL had version 'B' engine blocks even though they may have had early chains. Which just makes it more confusing, but may explain why they are being used without problem. If I get time today I will look again just to double check. I had looked at so many part numbers the other morning I was getting a bit blurry

I can not remember if the CBZB engine first appeared in VW or Skoda. (In the UK) I suspect VW may have seen the engine first which may explain why I only seem to be able to fine the 'A'' engine block in VW's

I agree, I suspect most people who may have had problems are simply rolling them into their local garage and the are fitting chain 'K' as that is the first thing they see on the parts list. So no real "help me" threads popped up.

Deleted

Just a couple quick questions that Jay-Jay may know the answer to.

1. When removing the lower sprocket just how difficult is it to remove? Does it put up a fight or not so bad with a decent quality puller?
2. When you re-fit the sprocket do you press it on to a given torque or simply press it on until it hits a shoulder on the crank.

My mate has one similar to this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-2-Arm-Slid ... %7Ciid%3A1

Removing the crankshaft sprocket is more difficult than pressing the new one, if you don't use a good quality extractor.
I really suggest you to use a 3 arms extractor, wich is a lot more stable.

There is no torque spec, as far as I know.

When you'll press the new sprocket, as soon as it reaches the closest point to the engine block, you will feel it. It will get so hard that you'll not be able to press it more.

Cheers, I'm just curious. I'm astonished that the sprocket has no key-way and simply relies on an interference fit. I could not tell from any of the images or the YouTube videos whether it was pushed up to a mating face so you know it is aligned to the same position as the old one.

So far as I can tell from the thread you do not have to align the lower sprocket to any fixed position to preserve the timing. That is re-set when you fit the upper sprocket with the chain tensioned???

Exactly!

As soon as you have the camshaft and the crankshaft both blocked in perfect timing position with the timing tool, you can install the crankshaft sprocket as you like (there's no specific orientation).

Then, the camshaft sprocket's position depends on the position of the crankshaft sprocket.

I assume the reason the software need to be reset is because as the old chain stretches the software monitors and adjust the timing a small amount to keep the timing correct.

Once you fit a new chain, the old stored settings will be wrong so have to be adapted to the new chain. So the software cant really tell you how much it has stretched in total, but it does tell you how much the timing is changing from the original figures. ( still can't work out exactly how to interpret the numbers. I am still searching!)

Yes, that's correct.
But on ECU versions up to Simos 10.20, the reset of the timing chain adaptation values is not supported.

Jay-Jay wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:12 pm Yes, that's correct.
But on ECU versions up to Simos 10.20, the reset of the timing chain adaptation values is not supported.

Ah! Mine is Simos 10.2. So no software reset needed for mine?? Or is 10.2 where it starts?

How did you check the version of your ECU?

10.2 is generic.
I'd need to know if it's 10.20 or newer (for example, 10.22).

Jay-Jay wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:29 pm How did you check the version of your ECU?

10.2 is generic.
I'd need to know if it's 10.20 or newer (for example, 10.22).

I had a software update done at my last service (last year) I just had a quick look at the print out. I will have another look to see if I am missing something obvious....

It is listing
Hardware part number 03F 906 070 D
Hardware version H02
Software version 9851 (updated from 9694)
SIMOS 10.2

That about all I can see from the paperwork

Well this is slowly climbing up my "to-do" list. Budget is tight this year which has meant me doing the servicing myself for the first time in many years. Just needs a brake fluid change now to be all ticked off.

I'm still hunting down any little bits of information I can regarding timing chain update. Chances are this will get pushed off until next year now, however having not used the car for around a week when I came to start it it gave me the longest "rasp" I've heard so far, lasting a few seconds. I guess with the car standing all the oil had time to drain away from the tensioner and it took a second or two to regain pressure. It's just reminding me it will needs doing.

Now I found a little nugget of information relating to the engine block. The larger chain only being applicable to the updated block mentioned by the Skoda & Russian guys. One of the changes to the block relates to the "anti-drain" valve (oil) and how and where it is in the engine block. On engines prior to 20-10-2010 the anti-drain valve appears to be mounted in the top of the engine block and it requires the head to be removed before the valve can be removed. From 21-10-2010, the drain valve is accessed from the underside of the block (under the oil pump) I guess all that was done to improve the oil supply and help stop it draining back to the sump.

One thing that has crossed my mind as a relatively easy fix and stop-gap measure to getting the chain replaced would be to simply update the tensioner first. It's not just the chain that causes the problems, it's a number of things coming together. Swapping the tensioner would be cheapest and relatively easy and possibly help ward off serious failure.