Front bearing

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amer6R
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Drives: Polo 6R 2010 1.6 TDI
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Front bearing

Post by amer6R »

Hello guys,

I was about to put the bigger brake kit since my left bearing left the game.

Can someone tell me, is the bearing when new completely silent?

When I turn one of hub I hear like rubbing paper on paper sound ( and it spins more freely).

While the second hub feels and sounds more harsh. I has a bit resistance and a more noise than the first one.

I'm now in doubt wether to buy One SKF bearing and replace the worn out that is on the car.
Or weather to go with this Brake kit.

These hubs sat for a while. I
'm not sure to go with this 288 setup ( I still didnt replace ABS 8.2 pump to ESP 9.0) - Not sure how the pedal feel would be.

Also on top of that i like the acceleration, and im trying to keep the rotational mass down ( If i upgrade this will mean + ~ 2kg per wheel).

Any tips about removing the ABS sensor from the hub without damaging it ?

Would love to hear you opinions.
amer6R
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Re: Front bearing

Post by amer6R »

I decided to buy a new wheel bearing.
I bought SKF but my mechanic told me it doesnt have the securing ring around it. And they had issue with bearings that dont have it damaging the ABS ring.

My skf bearing looked like this
Image

Did you SKF bearing look like that.

Oem bearing had this ring like this:

Image

I told then duck it and put it in. Now Im wondering will it f. the abs ring so I could again buy a new bearing
uncledunnie
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Re: Front bearing

Post by uncledunnie »

Hi,

I replaced both front wheel bearing a few months ago, this was my experience.....

My new bearings were smooth and silent when rotated, my existing nearside was completely shot and was very rough / stiff to turn, offside was actually ok, but I changed it anyway.

The metal ring at the bottom of the bearing on the OEM picture is what holds the bearing into the retaining groove in the hub, I have no idea what holds the SKF bearing in if it doesn't have it, this metal ring has nothing to do with the ABS sensor ring.

The separate plastic ring in the SKF picture fits on the end of the drive shaft to protect the abs sensor ring, yours may be intact so they in theory don't need replacing.

In respect of the little black ABS sensors......

After removing the brake back plates I cleaned up the area around the seat of the sensor removing all the rust and dirt then sprayed liberal quantities of releasing fluid and left for a while. I also cleaned up the bolt ready to accept the allen key.

offside bolt came out easily and I gently rotated the sensor back and forth and pryed it up using 2 small flat screwdrivers, it came out fairly easily.

nearside was a different story, couldn't shift the bolt, the allen key rounded out the bolt and I ended up gripping it with mole grips, which released it, eventually. I couldn't shift the sensor on this side for love nor money and ended up breaking it...

In hindsight, the inner mandrel of my puller had a flat face, designed to clear the ABS sensor when removing the bearing, I didn't have the courage to trust it, which is why I removed the sensors first (or at least tried to). If I had the same issue again I would have removed the bearing then tried to ease out the sensor by pushing from the inside out. I should add that I ended up using a hammer to remove the frozen sensor.

I also cleaned up both sensor holes with a Dremmel before refitting.

Hope that helps!
amer6R
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Re: Front bearing

Post by amer6R »

Thanks, the mechanic changed it. Abs sensor was intact ( i've sprayed it with WD over night).

Well I know it doesn't hold it, but he said something about the bearing wondering off because it doesn't have anything to hold it. ( no ring) and that damages somehow the abs electromagnetic ring on wheel bearing.
( He didn't directly stated what brand of wheel bearing it was)

Yes exact same story, my worn out wheel bearing felt stiff and rough, you can feel like a bump inside when you turn it 360° ( similar to the one i bought form a donor hubs)

The new wheel bearing spins freely and has similar sound as if you were to rub paper on paper but very silent.

Only thing that goes thru my mind SKF made a tolerance fit ( meaning they have very precise OD of the bearing)
Sure it need force to get in the hub carrier.

I was amazed when I saw this hub(bearing) can be done on a Press. ... ( He also has the special tool for these bearing( T5, seat, skoda, vw..) also)

The plastic ring goes on the CV joint. The SKF cv joint comes also with it.
GSP joint has this ring made from metal and its on the CV joint it cant be taken off.

I found my answer, it confirms my thoughts
https://webimg.ftz.dk/pdf_hel/0050/TB_V ... N_0814.PDF
RUM4MO
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Drives: B8 S4 & 6R/6C1 1.2TSI 110
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Re: Front bearing

Post by RUM4MO »

My wife's August 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS started making slight bearing noises last October, I first noticed this after swopping from Summer to Winter tyres, I initially thought that it was just uneven wear on these winter tyres, there was very slight sawtoothing, but after changing back to summer tyres in May this year and getting the front subframe re-aligned after finding that one of the front securing bolts had sheared its head off (that was found on the garage floor!), anyway all my excuses had run out and it was changing front bearing(s) time at 40K miles.
I discovered that SKF had evolved their version and so avoided buying that version, and so bought FAG "wheel sets" from Autodoc, I also bought a cheap China manufactured 72mm Gen2 bearing removal/fitting kit, and to avoid finding that cheap kit's forcing pins bending, I took a chance that these cheap China made kits were just copies of what better brands were, and bought a set of 5 Sealey 72mm Gen2 kit forcing pins - that worked out okay!
I worked out that the flat section on the removal rear plate in that cheap kit was not enough to clear the ABS sensor and deepened it quite a bit, that worked for the Left (near side) of the car and so that side's ABS sensor survived the old bearing removal and the fitting of the new FAG bearing. Unfortunately, not so for the Right (off side) ABS sensor, that side was rusted up a lot more than the Left (near side), and removing that bearing and its attached rust, caused the "finger" of that ABS sensor to get dragged out/across the hub bore slightly! Removing these ABS sensors is not easy, the official VW workshop manual states that they will not come out undamaged and so need replaced - and that is what I found! Forcibly ejecting that ABS sensor seems to have caused a bent/cracked lower section to break off completely, while the bearing was out it was easy to remove the broken off section. I found a 10mm drill was enough to clean up the rust built up in that ABS sensor hole, while the bearing is out that hole is circular all the way down. Once the bearing is fitted, the lower section of that ABS sensor hole is more like a slot with curved sides due to the presence of the bearing - so I'd now never advise anyone to apply any rotational motion to a Polo/Fabia/Ibiza/A1 in a bid to free it up, as doing that will always compromise the lower end of the ABS sensor as it has flattened sides so that it fits into the available space behind the bearing.
The original hub bearings were SNR - France so maybe that is why lots of VW Group wheel bearings fail at an early stage in the car's life!
The branding of the original ABS sensor was ATE, which slightly surprised me as the ABS system is Bosch, and that means that the ferrule that the securing bolt passes through is aluminium alloy, whereas the Bosch replacement I bought and fitted has a brass ferrule. New VW Group ABS sensors cost £95.90, Autodoc sell quite a few brands and Bosch ones cost roughly £26 + delivery, ECP sell Bosch ABS sensor for this car, for next day delivery, for roughly £56 and this is where/what I chose due to an 8-10 days wait for an Autodoc delivery.
Neither removed bearing felt or sounded any different to the new bearings, but that car is now as quiet as it was when new, just how long I could have left these bearings in for I can't say but I was not willing to find out the hard way!
amer6R
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Re: Front bearing

Post by amer6R »

I still have no issues with the SKF bearing
RUM4MO
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Re: Front bearing

Post by RUM4MO »

amer6R wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:10 am I still have no issues with the SKF bearing
Good, I made that comment as I did not know or could not find any technical papers covering SKF's reasoning or logic to change the design of their later version of that hub bearing assembly, I had up to the point of ordering the new bearings read/watched as much as I could so that I made myself fully aware, or as aware as possible about this task as I was personally going to do all the work, having never worked on Gen2 bearings before. I must say that while there is always something to find out watching YouTube videos, and even the bearing manufacturer's videos and their vendors videos, not one video I watched performed that task on a car that had just come in with a noisy bearing, all the cars looked a lot like the bearings had been removed and then fully refitted - and then a video made covering the second time that bearing and ABS sensor had been removed. Especially the ABS sensor, the profile of these sensors means that rust build up and fills any voids in the moulding, and a quick squirt of proper release fluid, wait 10 minutes then a slight wiggle, does not work at all. Some small other things add to the difficulty of carrying out this task - like one of the screws that secure the disc shield is located behind and within the area covered by the wheel hub, now that is just a sloppy bit of design work by VW Group, probably way back in the initial Skoda Fabia design work.

The ABS sensor that ended up being "tilted" when drawing the Left side hub bearing out, had quite a bit of wear on one side, either from the end of the bearing assembly or the nylon dirt deflector that is mounted on the drive shaft - either from being too close to either part or due to a build up over time of dirt/rust/dirty rust on either part.

Edit:- one other comment maybe to help others, one thread that I read on a VW Group motoring forum said that the tool kit that they bought which was correct for this range of cars, did not have the correct size of rear mandrel for pulling the new bearing into the hub, what I found on one side was, my tool kit of bits fitted correctly but not so on the other side - but I worked out that that was due to a more severe build-up of rust on the Right side, tapping the fitting mandrel into place eventually allowed it to get into the correct position against the inner side of the hub carrier.
amer6R
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Re: Front bearing

Post by amer6R »

I think that SKF did it to keep labor cost down.( no metal ring, no welding it on etc).

They just have to produce a high tolerance fit.
Im not sure but i think the bearings with the ring( ring deforms) are not re-usable, while I think the SKF one is.

The bearings on the 288 mm carrier i bought were also SNR/ NTN OEM. And the left one is rough.

Ive driven my car 230 km/h, some spirited driving thru corners and no isses with SKF bearing.

Iichel said when you buy the bearing from the dealer you get an SKF bearing.

FAG is top quality, BMW uses FAG.

I dont like the design, they should have gone with one like in Golf ( bolt on bearing).

Great job doing it your self! Too bad you had an issue with the tool.quality.
spartacus68
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Re: Front bearing

Post by spartacus68 »

My experiences.

1/ Do prep work the day prior to fitting the new bearing, otherwise you’ll need a new ABS sensor

2/ Fit FAG bearing

3/ Conclusion: OEM bearings from factory fail prematurely, in my case at 40k miles.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=75279
RUM4MO
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Re: Front bearing

Post by RUM4MO »

@spartacus68, ah, I had forgotten that you had posted all that stuff a couple of years back, I tend to find the "search" function on all motoring forums a bit not too useful!

@amer6R, any complaints I had with the Gen2 tool kit would all be down to me as a home mechanic/DIYer needing to buy a cheap tool as opposed to me handing the car into a garage for this repair, so I bought a cheap Gen2 tool kit for £60.55, if I had bought a "cheap but good" Sealey Gen2 tool kit it would have cost me over £200, but after reading postings on a motoring forum about the forcing pins maybe bending when using these cheap Gen2 tool kits, I thought that I would avoid getting into that situation by buying a set of 5 spare forcing pins from Sealey - so maybe the forcing pins that came with my cheap Gen2 tool kit would have performed their task okay. The comments I made about the "removal" rear plate would also apply to most other kits, but I had worked out how to modify my one to avoid any possible contact with the ABS sensor, looking back on carrying out this task, I considered also modifying the "fitting" rear plate so that it never ever got close to touching the "finger" of the ABS sensor - though both the modified "removal" rear plate and the unmodified "fitting" rear plate worked perfectly well when replacing the first, ie near side bearing as that ABS sensor survived intact and still works okay. Somebody was selling a new unused VW Group near side, ie Left side in UK, ABS sensor extremely cheaply on ebay - so I just had to buy it, just in case, while waiting with the car still up on jack stands, for the Bosch ABS sensor for the off side, ie Right side in UK that I broke when replacing that bearing arrive at my local ECP outlet. So far that extra ABS sensor has not been required and the car has now been run for 130 miles.

Points to add here for the benefit of others planning to carry out this task, I did not remove the ARB droplink - next time I do this job, I would always remove one end of the ARB droplinks as by doing that you can create more space for the drive shaft to be moved to out of the way. I did though remove the TRE from the hub carrier as doing that makes getting the driveshaft out a lot easier. Also, I refitted the lower arm to the hub carrier temporarily after removing the drive shaft, doing that helps locating the strut/hub from moving around while you operate the Gen2 tool kit, it was easy to refit the lower arm on the Left side, but not so on the Right side, but I did manage to get one bolt/stud to pass through the hole and fit a single nut to keep everything in place on that side while operating the Gen2 tool kit.

One final point that I worked out very quickly the first time that I needed to take front suspension apart on a 2002 9N Polo and its "relatives" - always have a comprehensive tap and die set available before starting this sort of job, and always use it to clean up the exposed thread sections on parts like the TRE, as once again I thought that things were going okay only to find that the TRE taper had broken free from the hub carrier - that problem was quickly sorted out by re-tightening the TRE nyloc nut and cleaning the exposed threads with a suitable sized die - I did clean up the TRE threads on the other side before starting to take off its nyloc nut and the nut came off easily/quickly. Same treatment for the lower swivel nuts. You don't need a proper professional quality of tap and die set as typically you are only going to use it to clean up threads and not actually forming them on unthreaded materials, just make sure that any set you buy includes typically both "fine" and "coarse" metric thread options.

I followed the advice of the official VW Polo 6R/6C workshop manual when torquing fixings and which fixings to clean and reuse if okay and which fixings to replace - for this job, the only fixings that should be cleaned and reused if okay are the brake calliper carrier securing bolts on the 288mm and bigger brake discs.

Edit:- one hopefully final point, both from watching YouTube videos of this job being carried out and advice from the official VW workshop manual - "never ever allow the weight of the car to rest on the hub/wheel while the drive shaft nut is not fully tightened" - am I wrong, or does that not make any sense when dealing with these correctly fully fitted Gen2 hub bearing assemblies, surely on these cars, the drive shaft nut only secures the drive shaft into the hub assembly?
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