UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum

Well, I'm happy (sort of) to say that this is my first post here at UK-POLOS.net using Linux in my home PC.

And I have to tell ya, what a handful this system is.

I've been fiddling with various forms of Linux since 2002, especially at work or at the University. The good thing about using a different system in places like those (where someone gets paid to watch over the computers, so you're basically not responsible for them) is that everything is nicely configured and exactly where it should be. So I've always dismissed people who said Linux was complicated, because it was always there with a nice'n'easy graphical interface and, this I have to say, it's essentially impossible to crash Linux.

Well, since then (about 2002) the whole country has gone Linux-crazy and eventually I decided I had to give it a try at the desktop as that was the patriotic thing to do. Or the internationalist thing to do. Hell, I don't know.

Chosen distribution was SuSE Linux 9.1, which is German. I downloaded it from SuSE for free. It looked nice enough, if screenshots are anything to go by. Looks better than Conectiva (the most popular Brazilian distro), anyway.

Installing was a breeze: it detects everything (almost, read on) and installs itself beside Windows. It can access Windows partitions and I've been able to use the same desktop pics for both systems. The office suite opens .doc documents very easily. Internet browsing is actually a bit faster - but then again I haven't loaded Linux with all the stuff I keep running in the background under Windows. Eventually I will.

The graphical interface is very nice but the icons are way too big. However, you can change basically everything by downloading 'skins' - think winamp skins, not the lame Windows themes. If you have nothing better to do, you can even create a new skin (it's not that hard, at least the grphics can be edited). I'll try that in the weekend.

The system itself feels a bit like the MacOS (or perhaps I'm being influenced by the 'acqua' skin I have installed).

Problem is, Linux is damn hard to configure. I still don't know how to add a program that SuSE's YAST (it's just like a Windows control panel) can't handle - the packages need to be SuSE-specific for this to happen, like Skype for linux.

Another thing, I can't get the sound card to work properly. Sound does come out, though, from my USB telephone (which Linux seems to think is a good replacement for my sound card). Ironically, Skype doesn't work with the telephone. But I can hear MP3 songs using the headset.

It's only my first time with Linux, and I sort of enjoy the feeling because it brings back the young me in the early '90s trying to make TestDrive games work with the PC speaker, all under DOS (TestDrive always crashed Windows 3.0). It's the same feeling I guess, not knowing much about the system and learning by mistake. Or from the mistakes. I don't know.

Linux has reduced me to a 12-year-old again. If only there was high-speed internet (or even the internet, for the home at least) back then...

That's it. All this talk of going to back to when I was 12 made me feel like playing the Super Nintendo emulator - so I'm off to restart the machine and log onto Windows!

I'll post a pic of my Linux desktop as soon as I figure out a way to, well, make a sreenshot. Possibly in the Windows Desktops thread, for shock value.

Cheers!

I feel inspired (sort of) to try it myself!
I went a bit linux mad a few years ago and would only use it, but then I wanted to play games and all sorts you can only do on windows (at the time)

I might give it another go now, well it is free!

Linux has reduced me to a 12-year-old again. If only there was high-speed internet (or even the internet, for the home at least) back then...

that's a frightening thought! I wonder what the world would be like now? and would american be the official language of the world?
I hate to think, school would have been easier though.

James.

Good man!

I'm too much of a pussy to try it, but Windows XP has been p1ssing me right off recently.

Anyway, I've been tinkering with my Xbox over the last few days that I've been bed-ridden...

I've managed to put a 40gb HDD in (that I had lying around) and I've put the latest versions of EvoX and XBMC on it.

Xbox Media Centre is awesome.... The Xbox's Killer App by far.

Anyone who's chipped their Xbox who hasn't installed XBMC needs stringing up. It's THAT good!

Took a bit of configuring, mind you, but it's worth it. Isn't it Metz?

Soon as Win98 stops giving me electronic blowjobs i'll try Linux. Intend to bypass XP et al if at all possible - my work department is doing a 98 to XP migration at the moment and from what i've seen of the first few systems installed, it AINT gonna be pretty. Outlook XP opens about ten times slower than 98's exchange, we cant put our own wallpapers on any more, the networking keeps blowing up and it cant install/detect/configure network printers for toffee.

<rant>
It's not even like the old machines were slow or anything, pretty solid mid-Ghz Dell workstations - and particularly considering for the bulk of the number-crunching work we're still relying on four fossilised Sun Sparcs (a couple 5s, an Ultra, and a god-only-knows... all of them registering at various points on the slow-as-f**k scale of pure maths benchmarking) and a goddamn P100 (with 8mb RAM!). Jeez. Upgrading for the hell of it, probably just for the tech support guarantee (instead of investing in, i dunno, a 233mmx and software upgrade for the actual scanner)...
</rant>

Ahem..... So, like i'm gonna let that touch my own PC with a barge pole. Just take a running jump and see if i cant find enough open source (or even commercial... or OS-X?) apps that replace my current ones, and emulate the windows-only ones... because the only thing that would trigger a change of OS right now is a catastrophic security issue, or a hardware upgrade (98 gets uppity over certain Ghz/RAM limits apparently, and certainly over 250gb hard disc) --- meaning PLENTY of excess CPU cycles

I wasn't so brave as to leave Windows completely - too many important files, contacts, e-mails are there... Good thing with most Linux distros is that they re-partition your HD and install themselves alongside Windows. Windows doesn't even notice Linux is there (Linux does notice Windows, and I'm using sounds and wallpapers that are stored in C:\Windows).

As for Windows p*ssing you off, then linux isn't the replacement. It won't crash, but it's irritating in its own way. Maybe it's just my ignorance - I still don't know how to navigate all the menus - but things do seem to be more complicated than under Windows. Then again, Windows has become second nature for most of us so anything else is bound to 'feel' more complicated.

The Americans are right when they talk about a 'learning curve' with other OS's. (though I didn't face one when I changed from Win98 to the Mac back in 1999. The Mac was a bad experience though).

I can tell ya I'm starting to have a good time with Linux now that I've chosen a nice desktop theme and window decor (yes, you can basically change the way the windows look, and I don't mean just the colours, you can change basically everything).

Another good thing about linux - well, SuSE linux anyway - is that you can configure its installer to search for programs in FTP servers.

So, if you need software for some specific task, you hit Google to find out the names of a few packages that do what you need to do (say, edit videos or something), then you tell Linux control panel to search scores of FTP sites for them and download as many programs as you want.

Then it's just a matter of testing the programs and see which is best in your opinion. Or you can just search the forums around the internet and see what programs people are using.

It's that easy. Oh, and it's free. 'Course, some packages - especially the more 'serious' apps - are not free. Then again, they're much cheaper than the Windows equivalent. And some of the more powerful professional tools (like REALLY heavy database stuff, some server apps etc.) don't even have Windows equivalents. Since I'm not an IT pro, I don't care about the paid stuff and am pretty happy with the free software so far.

IMHO, Linux is good for the 'extremes': either the IT pros or people like my mom and dad, who don't know a thing about computers and keep opening virus-infested e-mail attachments, files and web pages under Windows.

Since they don't play games and only use the computer for e-mail, the web and the odd text or spreadsheet, Linux is just as good as Windows and it's a lot safer (a virus attached to a .scr file won't infect a Linux machine).

My mother wasn't even able to tell the difference between the two - well, she did notice the Windows looked different and the "Start" button was missing, but she was also happy that the Firefox icon was much bigger now. That's because I kept Firefox in the quickstart bar in her Windows computer, and KDE's shortcut icons are in the same place. Only larger.

Well, that's it for the moment. I'll try and capture a screenshot as soon as I download GIMP (a sort of open-source Photoshop or Photo-paint app).

But first I have to make linux use my sound card. It detects the card and appears to be loading the correct driver. That's a progess already.

@Petrified

Hehehe. I must admit I was overwhelmed by the hype and felt I HAD to try Linux. The BBC is right, people here have fallen in love with linux, or the concept of linux (I'm still to find someone who's really abandoned Windows in favour of the penguin in their home PC).

You can download an ISO image of the SuSE 9.1 Personal Edition CD from this link. From SuSE/Novell itself. Size is 702 MB, ready to burn!

@Josh

The Xbox is too complicated and too Microsoft for me... I'm still a Super Nintendo man.

If you have some free space in your HD then I suggest you try Linux. It still defeats me most of the time but I like a challenge. It's an OK environment for basic things like browsing, or compiling huge chunks of code for that matter.

Anyway the worst part of having Linux installed alongside Windows is that you'll be prompted to choose one of them every time you boot... If you can live with that, then by all means, give Linux a try.

If you're still in the web bussiness, sooner or later you'll have to learn how to use anyway...

Cheers!

used to have a permanent bootmenu on my first pc

mind you that was one to choose between windows, regular DOS, and DOS game-mode

still wouldnt be a problem.. much

yeah i know linux can play up, or at least, unix can (got various flavours on works machines) - just hope the modern interfaces are less morbid than the old ones. also hard to diagnose/fix those problems (no apparent equivalent to ctrl-alt-del) and of course a big interface learning curve. once you're over that it's plain sailing however

(theres a particularly wierd one we have where all programs are launched from a right-mouse button popup menu, you have to do a mac-style " 'close' and THEN quit" operation to shut each one off, and a lot of the sliders can ONLY be adjusted with the middle mouse button..... if you have a 3 button mouse at all!)

I wonder how OSX'ers are getting on though, it being built atop a linux (unix?) shell...

SuSE linux comes with the KDE desktop (interface) which is cross between the MacOS (X and above) and Windows. It doesn't look or feel morbid at all.

Even the shortcuts are the same as the Windows one.

Or perhaps it's the cartoonish desktop theme and icons I've downloaded.

Anyway, the interface is friendly "enough". But earlier today I found myself typing code from a terminal windows to launch a program. I know there's some 'graphic' way of doing that, but Linux forums and helpdesks seem to be full of command-line addicts - and I have to rely on them for the operations I can't figure out by myself.

BTW I managed to make my sound card work, but the volume is still way too low. My brother says it's the driver's fault. He said this sort of problem has only two possible solutions: 1. I desing, write an compile a new driver myself; or 2. I spend £8 on a new sound card.

I'm leaning on no. 2.

As for mouse issues, SuSE 9.1 detected my keyboard as "Microsoft Internet Keyboard (USB)" and my mouse as "Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical". They're behaving the same way as they behave under Windows.

One irritating detail about the interface: thing open with a single click. Double-click Windows addicts like me have a hard time getting used to that (I get 2 windows for the same thing all the time).

Mr Joshua....*agent smith from matrix voice*


XBMC is utterly fantastic...watching educational movies off my pc on my xbox is cool..and sitting infront of the tv listening to webradio while perusing game and movie clips off the internet on the xbox is great fun.

You can even get the weather report!


*Warning editing of the XML file is needed and much hair loss may occur*

Here's a couple of screenshots (finally!).

Images are not as sharp as they're supposed to be because I've reduced them from 1152x864 to 800x600.

Right that's it I've just started downloading it.
2 hours!! thank god for 1meg broadband. I remember downloading it 5 years ago on a 56k modem, mind you it was only 200mb then but it still took a week with getright.

James.

ah that looks familiar!

how easy is it to use now? because i remember grappling a few experimental times with an earlier version of that interface (looking very similar..) on the few linux-equipped computers at university. It was a god damn triple distilled nightmare... Only went for it because whichever tech had installed it, had set it up better and marginally more usably on there, than the copy of windows95 it was dual-booting with (aaaaancient 486/66 boxes in a secluded building on campus where we had some less popular lectures... with standard VGA monitors somehow running 800x600, probably interlaced! *bleck*)

Tahrey1043 wrote:ah that looks familiar!

how easy is it to use now? because i remember grappling a few experimental times with an earlier version of that interface (looking very similar..) on the few linux-equipped computers at university. It was a god damn triple distilled nightmare... Only went for it because whichever tech had installed it, had set it up better and marginally more usably on there, than the copy of windows95 it was dual-booting with (aaaaancient 486/66 boxes in a secluded building on campus where we had some less popular lectures... with standard VGA monitors somehow running 800x600, probably interlaced! *bleck*)

486s... That's true cyber-archaeology! I know the feeling, at my university there's a "treasure cave" (an abandoned annex building) with piles of old Samsung VGA monitors (non-Syncmaster). I used to have one; they couldn't handle more than 640x480 , dot pitch was .40 or something that bad. You're right, there were some unbranded monitors from the time that could do 800x600 interlaced. Lots of 386s, 486s and early Pentiums (66 - the very first Pentium - and 75, 90 MHz versions) in the "cave" too. They still work, probably - no signs of scavenging for components - and I wish they were donated or put to use again.

Just hate to see machines left to rot away like that.

But I digress. OK. Linux.

The interface you see there in the screenshots is KDE. It comes bundled with all SuSE packages and can be made to look good with the right icons and window frames.

So far it's been relatively easy to use - easier than I thought at first. I've had to resort to command lines a couple of times but that's because I was "fiddling". Bear in mind that Linux may not detect "exotic" hardware and that not all consumer hardware vendors care to write linux drivers for their components.

I still haven't been able to make Sype work under linux, but the MSN messenger client works perfectly.

As for installing programs & other packages (like icons, themes, etc.), SuSE's YAST control panel makes things very easy. I needed something like photoshop to go with my linux and found out from the Internet that there's a program called GIMP which is great for the job; I searched for "gimp" in YaST's "Install/remove software" tool and it downloaded and configured the package in a couple of minutes. Simple as that.

I've been playing around with system icons (you can basically change all of them). My desktop is a mix of several icon packages downloaded from [url=http://www.kde-look.org]kde-look.org[/i]. I really like this penguin: . He's now my "Start Menu" icon, instead of KDE's "K" icon.

Right now I'm using linux as I randomly surf the 'net, check my e-mails and edit a couple of photos. As I do these things I'm not really noticing the fact that it's all being done under a different OS. Then again, I have to work with Macs and was into Macs myself until a few years ago, so I'm kind of used to "regime changes" (to use the Texan jargon .

As I said before, for the "average joe" user the OS doesn't make any difference. Linux even has some nice, simple games. It's got Taipei/Kyodai which is enough to make my old man happy, for example.

My 'serious' files are still in Windows, which is completely oblivious to what's happened in its HD this past couple of days. All that's changed for Windows is the C: partition size. Not that it noticed the fact and told me somehow; I went looking for linux and all the evidence of it I could find was a smaller C:.

Linux can access my C: and D: NTFS partitions but refuses to write anything in there - better leave the Microsoft beast well alone. I can't blame linux really, and its refusal to write anything on the Windows partitions was probably in my best interest.

As I said, linux is OK. It's a good, polished program (or set of programs) that's probably way more powerful than what my usage allows me to see. I'm goinf to leave it here beside Windows for internet and other basic, "domestic" tasks. For work, I'll be using Windows for a while still. In the future, who knows?

Cheers!

oh aye

486 was me first PC... well my families was a 486/66. cant rightly remember what mine was, but it contained many pieces scavenged (ok, wholesale robbed*) from certain computers in an abandoned store cupboard, along with several compatriots who fancied scoring free "upgrades" (or starter kits, more accurately), from a couple of 386s, 486/25s thru to a couple rare P133s

took the 30 pin SIMMs from one particularly low spec machine and stuffed them in a 286 rotting in my own cupboard, it lapped them up - no longer being limited to 640k, it now had a full 2.6mb of available memory

er where was i

yeah a bit of command lining holds no fears, might be a little rusty after some time away, but before (and a certain way into, as i held off the upgrade for ages windows 95... DOS Goddage

sounds promising and i wish you the best with it


i also had a VGA monitor from somewhere on that same 286 (after me mum "accidentally" thru away its classic amber screenage AND VIDEO CARD when i had it open as she "thought they were to be thrown out".. wtf!) and an amazingly versatile ISA half-meg super vga card. Configured it to run 800x600 at about 50hz (both progressive and, the eyeballs choice, interlaced), 1024x768 at god only knows, something like 35hz interlace.., as well as a range of other totally bizzaro refresh rates and resolutions (eg 720x512 at 56hz, or using tricks to stretch that onwards to 720x540 with the same scanrate). It was never going to be good for anything, but it was just cool knowing what capability was available and acheivable


* yeah as if they were ever going to be used again - a year later i went back and they were in the same positions just with thicker dust, awaiting a time until someone needs that room, realises the computers are rusty, and calls a skip to get rid of them (like theyre ever gonna get recycled? i doubti t)

I *love* the look of the ximian desktop on gnome, but haven't had any hands on experience of it. And, to me anyway, there seems to be more interesting stuff happening with the gnome bods. That dashboard thing with the "clue packets" looks really interesting...

Years ago, I messed about with Redhat 4.2 with fvwm trying to look and feel and windows 95 (ah, the memories...) but haven't been back since...

Had a quick look round redhat's site, but can't see any download locations, apart from their Fedora bleedin' edge stuff, which I'm guessing isn't really geared to a beginner.

Does anyone know if you can stuff get redhat for free (I thought they had to do this under the gpl?), where should i be looking? If you can get the ximian stuff as well, that'd be ideal...

Of course, there's always OS X to mess about with. With its integrated X11 window manager and the BSD core, it would be an *ideal* toy to while away the winter evenings. All the eye candy of the mainstream plus the linux-esque underpinnings and compatability. It's just the matter of coming up with a grand or so to buy into that school of thought...

Deek.

@deek

You can search bittorrent for RedHat 9 iso images. RedHat 9.0 was the last version released by RedHat before they started with this Fedora nonsense.

Here's a site containing RedHat 9 ISOs.

A quick google search will turn up more sites, there are plenty of download locations posted in forums, blogs and personal pages.

I still prefer SuSE linux though. I'm trying to download Gnome 2.8.1 but I don't have an APT console (graphic interface) and I can't be bothered to download and install something as large as Gnome only suing command lines. I'm lazy like that.

Hope this helps!


BTW: Just found out that MSN Web Messenger DOES work under Linux, despite Microsoft claims that it requires Windows.

Under Windows, I was using the Web Messenger instead of the actual messenger app because I hate resident programs that lurk in my desktop like that. It works with Firefox both under Windows and linux. Not sure about the Mac.

Anyway, these days I just recommend people use Skype instead of MSN for chatting and talking via the web.