UK-POLOS.NET - THE VW Polo Forum

Hello, I've got a small list of problems for you guys to cast your expert opinion on - nothing major this time, just small irritations

Niggle 1: On starting the car first thing in the morning when it's very cold, it'll make a horrible whiney noise for the first 10 seconds or so as if something needs to loosen up or hasn't got any oil or something. Anyone else had this, if so any idea what's causing it? Dies away gradually over the first 10 seconds or so after starting.

Niggle 2: Again only when the car is very cold, it'll become near impossible to select any gears - first is the most difficult, then second and the rest are pretty bad as well. Really feels like I have to put a lot of strain on it to get it in gear, which I don't like doing. Gear change is pretty much perfect (save a bit of a crunchy fifth and reverse, which I can live with..) when the car's warm, just does this the first couple of times I try to select a gear to pull away when it's really cold.

Niggle 3: Rattles. How the hell do you get them to shut up?! Or more specifically, I think I have a rattle from my exhaust, it's not catching on anything or leaking at all, my suspicions are that the centre box needs replacing, is this likely to cause a rattle at low revs / when there's strain on the engine (ie pulling away)?

Niggle 4: Once again, when the engine's cold (I think I need to get it a blanket or something, poor thing..), it'll start perfectly on full choke, run at ~2500 rpm fast idle for ages, then the moment I move it anywhere the idle will drop down to around 1,000 rpm on full choke for the first 5 minutes or so of the journey, then spring back up to 2,500rpm when I can finally start to let the choke in again. For some reason it won't let me let the choke in gradually, it'll struggle away on full choke for about 5 minutes and anything less and it'll stall, then suddenly I can let it in to about 1/4 choke and then almost straight away it's ready to be freed up completely. Very strange, quite annoying and extremely expensive in petrol I've rigged up a permanent hot air feed in case it was icing, but this doesn't seem to have fixed the problem so I don't think it's icing up (and even if it was, I doubt it'd just suddenly thaw out in a matter of seconds at exactly the same point in my journey every day..)

If you can help with anything on that list I'd appreciate it, cheers

Niggle 2: Again only when the car is very cold, it'll become near impossible to select any gears - first is the most difficult, then second and the rest are pretty bad as well. Really feels like I have to put a lot of strain on it to get it in gear, which I don't like doing. Gear change is pretty much perfect (save a bit of a crunchy fifth and reverse, which I can live with..) when the car's warm, just does this the first couple of times I try to select a gear to pull away when it's really cold.

does this feel like the gearbox is moving about?

I would start by checking the rear engine mount and the gearbox oil and take it from there.

GroovyCarrot wrote:...Niggle 1: On starting the car first thing in the morning when it's very cold, it'll make a horrible whiney noise for the first 10 seconds or so as if something needs to loosen up or hasn't got any oil or something. Anyone else had this, if so any idea what's causing it? Dies away gradually over the first 10 seconds or so after starting.

Nothing to worry about there. Mine does it after its been stood a week, or after a cold night. Its apparently the oil finding its way around the engine after its settled.

EDIT: Just noticed niggle two. I find this with mine, like the oils not found its way round. The worst offenders are 3rd and 4th. I would be keen to know what that is too.

Karl.

i agree with carl, my mk 3 whines on start up if it has been left for a while.

mk2keel wrote:does this feel like the gearbox is moving about?

I would start by checking the rear engine mount and the gearbox oil and take it from there.

Gearbox oil I meant to check this afternoon but got distracted by the slightly less important task of fitting a new cd changer.. will do that tomorrow afternoon. Rear engine mount, that's a thought.. I've been meaning to check the torque on the M10 bolt for a while, because it doesn't feel as tight as it should and I have a nasty feeling that I never tightened it properly when I refitted the engine. I'll be doing that tomorrow afternoon as well..

Nothing to worry about there. Mine does it after its been stood a week, or after a cold night. Its apparently the oil finding its way around the engine after its settled.

Hmm, ok, good to know mine's not the only one to do it, but I'm sure most cars don't make that much of a fuss waiting for the oil to get round.. maybe it's just the cheap halfords oil that my dad bought me.. never ask someone else to buy engine oil without being specific

apart from the choke and the gearbox thing, just sounds like a cold polo to me

the whine is pretty normal for one thing. just the oil pump having to work a little harder to get cold, thick, goopy stuff moving up from the sump to the valves in a reasonable amount of time (ie, general thought being most poeple wont move off less than 10 secs before starting in the cold

rattles.......... that just it saying it loves you.

gearbox, erm.... top up the oil? dunno

the choke thing --- carbs --- sorry mate, dunno. suggest you go balls to the wall and convert it to injection. fancy an oil burning AAU to gut?

If it's free, sure

1=vw noise, mixture of water pump/alternator/valvues and oil circulating.

2=clutch oil more than likely, once it gets old it thickens up. May be worth a change.

3=rattles, depends on what type of rattle, if its air from the exhaust check the connections, if its metal on metal then its possibly a hanger or part of the sys touching the body

4=fueling, this is caused by the engine being in idle then being put under load. Anything under load will be using that extra energy to force through the whels, i dont think you really need to get it checked out but you can if it makes you feel better. I had this on my weber when i first put it on, as i had gone from auto choke to manual. Normally you wouldnt notice on an auto choke as the way the choke opens by thermostat is slower.

Icing is a bit different, it can be caused by overcarburration where too much cold air is dragged in and not enough fuel and later resorts to what we call "pinking" which isnt too dissimilar to the noise you hear from a car with incorrect oil. as it heats it will run really lean for a bit then sort itself. Or it can be caused by the air being too cold and the particles being too dense to detonate properly.

Cheers for that Overmind - the gearbox oil was replaced when I dismantled the engine last summer, so it shouldn't be bad, unless somehow it's become contaminated with something.. but I will check the level to make sure I put enough in last time. The rattle sounds like something touching, it's a sort of low judder when there's stress on the engine. Can't find any loose hangers or points of contact anywhere along the system, which was my first port of call.. number 4, not quite sure I understand what you mean.. I can see that it would tick over would be lower when it's under load, but I don't understand why the idle would become slower when I come to a halt after putting load on it, or why the idle point would return to normal after five minutes or so of driving.. normally I wouldn't bother getting something like that checked out, but I'm currently averaging about 30 mpg, 35 tops, so I can't really afford not to - that kind of economy on a student budget just isn't doable really I'm sure what you're saying makes sense, I just don't quite get what you mean

In other news, I checked that gearbox mount, it was indeed far too loose so I've tightened it up properly and it made a world of difference.. the whole car feels tighter to drive, it's lovely Smoother gearshift, no juddering of the clutch as I pull away, it's really fun to drive again So, ta for reminding me to check that
Still need to check oil though..

i had a judder like that, do you get it through the gear selector?

sometimes they can rotate inside the connector and knock on the underside of the selector.

as for the idle. It could still be perfectly normal, this can happen when the vacuum timing advance starts to settle off, on top of the distributor that round thing creates a vacuum when the rotor in the distrib spins. The faster it spins the denser the vacuum. THis force is used to advance the timing to allow the valvues to respond better in more demanding operations. Prob is theres so many things this could be (oil levels, faulty timing advance, cooling weather....)

Shame your not "dahn sahf" otherwise theres a few people about that could have a look.

i would be looking at timing, fueling and oil levels to start off. as for the vacuum advance, if you disconnect the small hose to it while the engine is running: on a working advance it will suck so you can test by holding your finger to it. At the same time you should notice a slight droop in engine tone, try blipping the accel cable while you are under the bonnet and check for different noise.

Ah, I see.. vacuum advance was replaced earlier this year as the diaphragm had gone, but only with one from a scrappy so it could have been on it's way out as well, I'll check it.. timing I haven't checked, so I'll do that, as for fuelling I've had a mechanic tune the carb, and I've tested the fuel pump so everything should be alright, although the plugs do look a bit sooty to me so I'm not sure that the mechanic did it properly... he's a guy I normally trust, but he did say there was something odd about my carb and that he might need to come out again to give it another prod.. oil levels are good, although it's nasty cheap halfords oil in there.. I'll change it at some point, when I can afford it.

The judder pulling away came through the clutch pedal and the gear lever, and the gear lever moved noticably when going from power to over run which it now doesn't since I tightened the mount. I have a feeling that the selector is the cause of one of my rattles though, as one of them definately dissappears if I push down on the gear lever. Again, it came from a 135,000 mile old scrapper, it was all that was around when I put the 5 speed box in, so it could probably do with replacing...