undoing mardy bolts

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:18 pm

I've reached an annoying impasse on the rebuild, need quick help/advice! Everything past this point should be similar to "put tab a into slot b" (apart from tightening head bolts..)

The alternator belt pulley (on the crankshaft) needs to come off, so the water pump and cambelt can be changed before putting the head back on. Unfortunately some genius decided allen bolts would be the best bet for it, and it should be hidden behind a panel with very little clearance.

One of them has undone ok, the other three are stuck, tight enough that having it in gear to brace against made the car rock back and forth*. Two of them are stuck too tight for my short keys to apply enough torque to break the rust, threadlock etc. The third suggests that even having a better set of keys wouldnt be enough as its rounded off slightly and the proper size one cant quite get a grip any more (the very next largest one i can find is only *just* too big).

Blasted them all with WD40 etc but no luck.

Haven't yet tried the heating-with-a-ciggie-lighter trick though.

Got any tips, clues, methods? Remember I need to get it back on again! (if its likely i'll need to find new bolts, then where might they be sold?

)

That, or some other way to swap the belt over and free up the waterpump without having to take this thing off? (the inner cambelt cover is in the way apparently, and removing the pulley frees it)

Just one thing after enough eh!

* (though, maybe 4th would be a better idea than 1st)

ste mk1lx · Post by **ste mk1lx** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:26 pm

i've never had to remove the pulley, all i do is cut the old belt and just pull it off, then slide the new one on sideways.

PoloCornwall · Post by **PoloCornwall** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:45 pm

Try getting a tap and hammer on it and give a few sharp hits to losen the rust on the threads if not then heat is the next option i guess

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:00 pm

steve - what? draw me a picture mate... i can't see how i can get a new belt into a position you had to cut the old one to remove it from, without cutting the new one also. Sideways???

I'll be utterly grateful if that IS how to do it and you've saved me hours of torment tho. Just cant visualise it right now.

PC - tap? you mean just give it a gentle knock with a hammer then?

cheers guys

PoloCornwall · Post by **PoloCornwall** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:04 pm

yeh if you can get a hammer in their hit it square on not hard enough to knock the engine of its mounts lol just tap it a few times and wd40 and it willcome straight out

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:19 pm

cheers dude, hope that works

gotta threadlock it before putting back in as well? something i havent been sure of with these...

ste mk1lx · Post by **ste mk1lx** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:47 pm

can't post pictures, never mind draw them

you don't have to cut the old belt just saves a bit of time, with the narrow part of the new belt should slide inbetween the pulley and the guard thats surrounding it (there may be extra gaurds on the mk3 to stop you doing it this way though). If you really need get the pulley off instead of undoing the allen bolts, try undoing the normal bolt in the middle of the pulley whilst the cars in 3rd gear and knock the pulley off

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:55 pm

(thats a good enough mental picture for now)
i was considering that but i think that's the one that holds the crank sprocket in as well, and you have to replace it afterwards? held on with like 100lbft of torque or whatever

would have made things a lot easier tho!

right so far i've got three off, one i had to use a 7/32" bit instead of a 6mm one because the hex shape got a little deformed with me battering on it, but it's all good (turned out to be the easiest as i could use a pocket socket wrench instead of an allen key). used most of a can of wd40 and all of a lighter.

the wd after the lighter obviously, and i'm allowing it to dry some before getting another out of the cupboard.

thing is the fourth one is a "bit" (read: lot) rounded out. working on trying to fit a 1/4" bit into it at the mo - might work with a little chipping or sanding, or just after heating?

i'll also see if i can get the belt out (& back in) the way you describe - sounds like a major hassle saver, but i think there may be too many bits of plastic in the way

if its not off in the next 30 mins tho im off to halfords or somewhere, see if they have a tool. that or ill just shatter the guards with a hammer.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:48 pm

f***ing thing!!!!

utterly rounded out now. need to find a special tool. or maybe just cut it off (should slide off the thread then? if i can find something to cut it with...) and have the fanbelt held on by 3 bolts in the future... not like its under masses of stress or anything

or find a tool to get it out with... drill it and use a screw or something? unless halfords / gsf can help

think i could get a hacksaw and just cut a groove across it? it seems fairly soft metal, and one thing I *do* have a wide variety of is meaty phillips-head screwdrivers & similar socket bits

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:33 pm

Now datz ghetto stylez!!!

lol ... got pissed off at it in the end... tried making it into a screw with a chisel, no go. but, based on the evidence that the inside edges are made out of butter whilst the outside ones are hewn from diamond using lasers, i got inventive

enter one 8mm spline socket, an extension bar, and a hammer. i now have three allen bolts and one spline bolt

it undid easy as anything after that. no, i can't figure why neither.

problem i have now is that the %*$Â£&)!! pulley doesn't want to come off anyway... tugging on it all directions but its stuck. may have to undo the main bolt regardless. (haynes says its only the allens holding it on, but i figure if i remove the "axle" then gravity will cause the pulley to move itself away from the engine)

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:24 pm

You don't have to remove those bolts. They hold the round pulley for the alternator belt onto the toothed pulley for the cam belt. It's the 19mm bolt in the centre that you need to remove, as that holds it onto the end of the crankshaft, on a keyway.

As a little tip for the future, if your allen keys get a bit worn on the end, cut a small bit off so it's a fresh face and leave the burr on after cutting. The burr will act as a little extra packing for a tighter fit.

GroovyCarrot · Post by **GroovyCarrot** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:18 pm

It's a bit late now I guess, but there is a nack to doing those allen bolts and it's easy as pie once you know it. First, find a plank of wood and a jack. Support the engine under the sump with the jack, using the plank to spread the load so the sump doesn't get dented (don't even think of not using the wood, as the sump just crumples..). Remove the alternator and the engine mount that it bolts to. With this mount removed you can move the engine up and down on the jack to make the bolts more accessible.
This bit assumes that the inner wings of the mk3 are the same as the mk2. Just in front of the pulley should be a hole drilled in the wing. Using allen sockets and an extension bar you can now position the engine block so that the bolts line up with this hole. Use the gears to stop the engine from turning as you undo the bolts. Easy as pie

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:25 pm

heh the hole's bigger on the mk3 - i can get at the main bolt and one (two, at a push) of the allens at a time ok enough, if i just turn the crank each time

what the problem is now - and further to a conversation i had with logik on msn - is getting the pulley itself out of the way. i've even managed to move it along the shaft* it's on and it ALMOST comes off...... but gets wedged between shaft/bolt and the car's actual chassis. (maybe if i move the engine around on it's mounts with your method, GC, it'll be freed up?)

logik suggested undoing the crank sprocket bolt, as you don't actually have to renew it (my main trouble, as i dont know where to get 19mm heavy duty bolts from, especially late saturday / anytime sunday). ... well.... i tried that. the thing is on far, far too tight for any tool i have to even touch it. My torque wrench is easily capable of supplying the force, as are my arms, but i have nothing suitable either for transmitting this force properly (all the extenders i tried started to bend a bit - there's quite a distance they have to cover, would have to be made of two-inch-thick titanium or something to not bend under that load at that distance) or bracing against the torque to stop the crankshaft rotating.

Get this. I put the car in gear, and, to cover the fact one of the wheels is off, pushed the brake pedal as far as my strength would allow, before bracing it against the seat with a bar. I then moved the pedal maybe another centimetre down by hefting the seat forwards onto it's next click.

The brake disc still rotated when i gave what i thought was going to be the heft that would break the seal. Made a hell of a racket too, showing it was actually supplying major friction.

So....... now what!

All this trouble for a little pulley, damn... I have no problems with the large things, its always the little bits!

*thats the word... not axle

EDIT inspired by GC i've done a bit of acrobatics - climbing up & crouching atop the block made it shift slightly, and the pulley was a bit looser. Think i will have to do the jack + wood idea so i can unbolt the mount (assuming THAT will undo) and get a little more play in it