Squuueeeeeerrrrrrrrrp...

[Tahrey1043]

OK now!

So i have the car as a going concern at last, engine wise.. it's idling a bit rough (air leak??) and making a quiet tappy noise, but otherwise done 200 faultless miles.

But the gearbox is giving me cause for concern. There was a rattly scrapy noise in neutral with clutch up before, but that's graduated to occasional louder rattles...... and every now and then, a startling instance of what i can only call the "knackered escort sound". A drawn out metal-on-metal squealing noise when pulling away, changing gear or doing other things that involve the revs coming upwards from idle or near it.

Not every time, but certainly several times a trip. I was wondering if it was the clutch (always assumed so when hearing it on the fords), but as it did it once or twice juring a 20-mile stretch of clutchless shifts, i'm no longer so sure.

What the hell is this?

So worried that it's something terminal - and something that may immobilise the car within the next 400 miles - in the box..

[GroovyCarrot]

Well, the rattle when idling with the clutch up sounds like the same thing as is wrong with mine, ie input shaft bearing. No idea about the other noises though..
Still, 4 speeders are cheap and it should only take you a day to change the box (just make sure you have someone on hand to help with the lifting bits).

[LogIK]

Yeah, like I said Tahrey, sounds like your input shaft bearing that's let go. I wouldn't bother sending it in for repair, just get antother box.

There's a GT box for sale on Porka last time I looked. You might as well get a five speeder, as they're a complete straight swap.

[Tahrey1043]

well i'll have to see about the price and the location ..... preferably really cheap and really local!

plus i'm going to have to do it on the stealth, maybe round my nans. if i go playing around with the gearbox on my driveway this time, the landlady is REALLY going to flip out and start killing people. and sure as hell i havent got any uncles etc who can help me with it. hmm.

[LogIK]

A couple of mateys maybe?

If you're running the engine in, it will be worth travelling for the box (obviously within reason) but you don't exacly live a million miles away from anyone else.

[Tahrey1043]

No, not really that far, but it always seems when i want to buy something the seller is a good couple hours drive distant if not more. The only thing I've ever picked up in person were the wheels from dave burton, and thanks to meandering roads/traffic/speed limits that was the best part of an hour each way - everything else has always had to come by post.

However I was wondering about hardhitters GT one. Price is a bit (when 4-speeds are allegedly available for a pittance) but at least i can reach derby easy from college.

will have a look at porka in a bit. bit zapped today.

everyone i know offline thinks im a bit touched for even bothering with the car so i may have trouble convincing anyone to give me a hand with it is what i mean. a year ago i might have roped one or other local uncles in, but since the brake drum fiasco one has washed his hands of giving me mechanical help, and the other is having a terrible rough patch in his private life at the mo and has other things to deal with (he is, however, more of a solid bet).

i may yet convince someone though.
hell maybe even my brother if i promise him money, PS2 games or DVDs. (or an uncapped week's run at the broadband, no complaints made)

[amstrange1]

If you've got two axle stands, a trolley jack, and something resembling a milk crate then you can do it on your own. The trolley jack's handy for jacking the engine under the sump (with careful padding to avoid damage), and the milk crate is ideal for sliding underneath the gearbox to aid dropping the 'box.

Rough procedure goes something like this:

Remove components hampering access to top of the 'box, in my G this means HT lead; boost pipes; reversing light wiring; fan & fan switch wiring; coolant level sender wiring and some other odds n sods.

Disconnect the clutch cable & speedo drive cable.

With the car still on the ground loosen the hub nut either side. Then loosen the wheel bolts.

Jack the car up - I jack it underneath the gearbox, then can easily whack a stand underneath each jacking point. Jack it quite high as you've got to get the 'box in and out underneath the car.

Undo the driveshafts from the output flanges on the 'box (easy if you have someone to stand on the brakes for you, time consuming if not), undo the hubnuts (removing the wheels is handy here!) and pull out the 'shafts. Easier said than done, but you CAN get the complete driveshaft out with some careful fiddling. Driver's side is the difficult one, you need the wheels on full lock (I forget which way) to do it.

Next loosen the 'box to engine bolts slightly while everything's still held in place. Remove the starter motor at this stage too, along with the exhaust downpipe brace and gear linkage.

Stick the trolley jack underneath the sump to take the weight of the engine, and undo the gearbox side engine mounts. I do the bottom one first, then the top.

Now undo all the bolts holding the 'box to the engine.

Stick a piece of carpet with a milk crate (or similar) on top underneath the gearbox.

Pull 'box off (one of the coolant hoses near thermostat housing gets in the way, you'll see which one - tie it up) and lower it carefully by the clutch arm onto the milk crate.

You can now lift from the milk crate to the carpet on the floor - I take the weight of the 'box and kick the crate out of the way. You can now pull the carpet out from under the car and the 'box will come with it.

Refitting is the reverse of removal...

I've probably missed some bits, but that's a quick precis of how I do it. With an assistant I can do a 'box swap in around an hour now if everything goes okay. The first time I did it on my own it took around 3-4 hours.

[Tahrey1043]

quick question before i fully read the rest of that.......

do i have to take the hub nuts off, really? Or could i just undo the inner shaft joint (such as I did to move the engine up and down) and mavouever the box and the disconnected shafts around somehow to get it out (& in)?

going on the evidence of taking a crack at the crankshaft nut I don't know if i have the ability to undo them or torque them back up. Not convinced the brakes will hold even with Mr T leaning on the pedal. I jammed it down with my patented stoplock-brace method a little stronger than I could push the pedal by foot (granted, the servo was disconnected, but i've locked 'em up without assistance before..) and the force of the torque wrench through the nut and transmitted through the drivetrain (even in top, with one wheel stuck on the ground) was enough to easily jump-spin the disc (the wheel-less one, and maybe the other one a bit) past otherwise very tightly gripping pads.

* there's torque multiplication through the box of course, but 4th gear with one wheel immobile works out to a 1.54 ratio, which is less than the increase of torque wrench setting between crank and hub. The hub nut requires *insane* torque both to do up and to undo, going by the figures.


EDIT: OK... looks like a sh*tlot of work! Nowhere near as bad as the engine of course, but still a lot of room for characteristic f**kups.
Axle stands - got 4 of em. Quality out of ten could be measured on the fingers of one arse, but they're pretty solid metal and have held the car up with no troubles every time before.
Trolley jack - well, i've got a pretty sturdy and reliable scissor jack. Let's say, it was more than tough enough to move both the engine and box up and down without (it) breaking a sweat - its designed to heft 2 ton monster saloons up and down for tyre changes and other jobs. If "something on wheels" isn't a requirement, it's your boy. Also got a suitable plank of wood for bracing between the jack and the sump
Milk crate thing - well, probably. Plenty of spare carpet, plastic boxes around, depends exactly how strong it needs to be. I'm sure I can find *something* that will take a gearbox. How heavy are they again (in case i need to test)? ... i'm thinking that if i can sit on it and it wont collapse then it's probably strong enough, though! (85-90kg typically, til the diet works)

HT leads, wiring, etc - no worries.
Fan - does it come off/go back on easy? Is it essential or will removing the wiring do?

When you say "quite high", can you give a rough estimate of the top of the axle stand from the ground? Both of mine only have about 3 or 4 settings, and I think I only once used the highest one. Might never have done - because I can't jack high enough.

Whole driveshaft thing - i'd give it a whack but i'd be really, really bricking it. Visions of drum brakes

Removing starter - I STILL don't know where this bugger is.
Bolts etc - cool, fine, so long as they'll come. Any clues on the size? (so i know not to lose those sockets )
Downpipe brace - the what now?

Undo all bolts BEFORE putting the milk crate underneath? Not t'other way round?

Coolant hose and both halves to the method of box lowerage - not a worry, though i fear for your back if you're able to take the thing's weight AND kick the crate away!

Hrm. Interesting.
Possible for a hapless eternal-n00b to do in an 8 hour day, you think?
Would it help to drain the gear oil out first?
And does the clutch come with it or stay attached to the engine?

[amstrange1]

Right, here goes!

The driveshafts really do need to come out and off - it makes the job so much easier. I've done it several times on my car (seven, and counting...) and only did it a couple of times with the 'shafts in and it's just not worth the extra hassle.

If you're worried about the tightness of the hub nuts then drive the car to your friendly local tyre place, and ask them to loosen them for you. I've had to do this with Yoof on his GT before. If you do them back tight with a ratchet or whatever it's safe enough to get you home (take it steady though!), and you'll get them off dead easy. When you put them back together, tighten them as best you can with a breaker bar - then take it back to said friendly tyre place/garage and get them to torque them correctly.

I've done it with a scissor jack before, trolley jack just makes it a little easier. But essentially all you need is something to support the weight of the engine, with the flexibility to adjust the angle it's hanging at to aid re-fitment of 'box and engine mounts etc.

As for the jacking height - just use a rough guesstimate, if you've got a new 'box to go on keep jacking 'til it looks like you've got enough clearance to slide it underneath the car okay.

The starter's at the back of the engine block. 2x13mm headed hex bolts and 1x13mm headed hex bolt and nut. Fixed to the nut and bolt is part of a bracket (the other part of the bracket is held by a 19mm headed 'box to engine bolt). The bracket's what holds the clutch cable off the exhaust downpipe, and also the downpipe brace bolts to it. You'll see when you're under the car anyway. Oh, and I forgot about the exhaust heatshield underneath there too - you'll need to unbolt that before you can get the driveshafts out.

I undo all the 'box to engine bolts before sticking the crate under (there are bolts underneath to undo you see, once you've done them by all means stick the crate under) - the 'box won't fall off as it's located by the input shaft onto the clutch/flywheel assembly, and also has 2 or 3 locating dowels. I wouldn't advise kicking it or anything once you've got the bolts out though... But it shouldn't just fall off!

The whole milkcrate thing is just to make the lifting a little easier. If I'm doing it with an assistant (i.e. Yoof) he just pulls the whole 'box off and lowers it to the floor straightaway. But then he made good use of his Gym membership! You can do it, but if you've struggled to get the 'box off the locating dowels then knowing you've got the crate there to effectively drop the 'box onto while you rest is handy.

Draining the gearbox oil isn't going to help that much, you're not going to lighten the load significantly to make the added mess worthwhile enduring. The clutch does indeed stay attached to the engine (or flywheel). It's held in place by the clutch cover plate that bolts to the flywheel.

And yes, you should be able to do it in an 8 hour day. I did it alone with the driveshafts still attached in less than 8 hours on my first time, and that included lengthy lunch, tea and swearing breaks.

[Tahrey1043]

well i tend to skip snacks and meals (except biscuits) when on such a mission (hassle to get cleaned up and go find something - the feeling passes and glycogen/fat is easily enough to power you through the job without needing piles of blood sugar), but i'd certainly have a couple cups of invigorating tea and excess instances of standing back and cursing.....

sorry about being a pussy over the driveshafts, its just always something that's looked like a complete arse of a task and i've tried to avoid it where possible (e.g. doing the bottom end of the engine would have been easier with the right hand one out of the way). you saying that the box can be removed with them in situ gives me hope as i might prefer wriggling it out to having to faff with them...
Though I'm also thinking, removing just the left hand one and only unbolting the RH shaft at the gearbox end would do it dandy-fine? As the box has to go towards the left of the car to dislocate from the shaft and the dowels.

Thanks for all the info .... if i end up doing it, then no doubt i'll be back screaming for more help, but i'm sure it cant be so hard as what's just passed.

PS Likely wont do it til after i've been to edinburgh - perhaps make a bank holiday mission of it. Seem to have earned a brief reprieve with the gearbox, its hardly making much noise now, particularly the squeal may pop up every 15 miles or less. Don't know why it did it so much sunday morning, but its eased a lot since. Maybe it was just settling back into the idea of having to move? (I'm now up to 300 miles ) ... does it less in the mornings than the evenings, too!

But the clutch seems to be getting stiffer, enough that the force of my foot on the pedal seems to be shifting/bending the pedal box a bit (can feel it with foot on brake). Either that or it's always been like that and i'm only noticing when driving barefoot/in socks thanks to the pain a day in cheap work shoes produces.

[amstrange1]

By all means leave the 'shafts in if you want to - it's not impossible with them in situ, just makes things more difficult overall (in my opinion of course!) as removing the driveshafts isn't as hard as you'd expect. Makes the difference between the 'box slotting on within 5 to 10 mins, or taking up to an hour to get it located.

With the rattling and stiffer clutch problem I'm wondering whether it's the clutch release bearing going, or the clutch itself failing. I think you'd be able to pick up a clutch kit (clutch friction plate, pressure plate and release bearing) for £30 or so from Ebay - and worth doing if you're having the 'box off anyway. Mind you, if the input shaft bearing on the 'box is going it won't be helping the life of those components anyway.

[hardhitter]

stop being a girl and get the driveshafts out !

[LogIK]

Have you got hold of a box yet?

[GroovyCarrot]

Driveshafts are a piece of p***, especially if you have someone to stand on your brakes while you undo them. If you find it hard to remove one, ie it looks like there actually isn't any clearance between the CV joint and the flange on the box, try turning the wheels to full lock one way or the other and see if you can push the joint into the wheel hub further. Sometimes it seems impossible but trust me there is a way and it's easy as pie once you find it.

[Tahrey1043]

stop being a girl and get the driveshafts out !

Have you got hold of a box yet?

Hahaha whoaaaa steady on chaps

I thought i'd get to the end of the running and see if the engine was going to be seriously ill before bothering with that - i'm off to edinburgh for the festy super early monday morning anyway (and will be totally blitzed thru to sunday, most likely)... Going to have to SORN the car before sale methinks!

I may yet have a go at the box, or I may sell it as-is and see if i find someone willing to take it on and do that themselves as a project. I don't think my personal life will stand much more mucking about with it any longer... i've got the family's tolerance of it but don't want to stretch it to breaking point. If it really is as easy as you say i might give it a crack but I know the f*** ups that can happen too well!
Mind you with it off the road once more who cares

Just wondering --- will leaving it cause major damage? I think I can feel the kick-back of it now, the "wobbly trolley wheel" effect that you get from crapped out bearings. Such as that, up around 70-80mph, when I press the throttle harder, the car actually seems to decelerate for a few seconds until the increased power starts to punch through the extra resistance (and when you ease off before that happens, it seems to "relax" and gain an mph or two before slowing proper). Unless this is something with the "air leak"?

I'm guessing - such as with the awful old porter's wheelchairs at the hospital - it'll gradually sap more and more power? The car seemed sprightly enough away from the lights and out of the final motorway service station, faster and more eager than i remember - but really was losing it up the top end, slower even than before. Seemed to be struggling to beat much more than 70-75mph* without a down-slope.

PS yeah, i was wondering if it was the release bearing before you said that. Also quite variable. Some times it was really stiff, noticably crap, others its ok.

* going by the tacho rather than the speedo, assuming that it's deadly accurate (speedo sure aint) and the mph/1000 is actually 16.8 as has been suggested to me - so having trouble going past about 4200-4500rpm in 4th without completely flooring it.