Oil change intervals on more recent cars?

[Tahrey1043]

Can boarders with a car made in the last 5 years, preferably as new as possible, of any make answer this one?

* Do they still need the oil changed at around 600-1000 miles?
* Does changing the oil more often than 10,000 miles cause undue engine damage because of the momentary lack of pressure before it circulates back from the pump and through to the temporary holding area that is the filter? More so than leaving the old oil in there longer?
* Will thrashing it continuously between the 1,000 and 3,000 mile marks do any damage?

This has come from a three way discussion between myself, a friend who has a new motor, and a mercedes garage servicing engineer who's also got a (different) new ride.

Won't reveal which side everyone's on for now as not to influence any opinions that are expressed. There's a fair bit riding on this, mostly peoples pride but potentially the future service life of one or more cars and possibly wagered cash / materials.

Cheers...
NOT putting a vote on myself, if you see one vote up there when you arrive, it's somone elses

[omicron]

We're talking new, new cars right?

* Do they still need the oil changed at around 600-1000 miles?

See manufacturer's reccomendations. But generally, yes. Our new vans went in for a change and to unlock the full rev range @ 5k.

* Does changing the oil more often than 10,000 miles cause undue engine damage because of the momentary lack of pressure before it circulates back from the pump and through to the temporary holding area that is the filter? More so than leaving the old oil in there longer?

Nope

* Will thrashing it continuously between the 1,000 and 3,000 mile marks do any damage?

That'll damage any car. Whether it'll be immediate or just reduced engine life is another issue.

Personally, mine both get changed every 3k. The escort's got a modern engine in, and they recommend 10k. No harm in doing it sooner though. Epeccially for diesels (a place my brother works at has a Fiesta Courier diesel van come in for a change every 2k, the bloke says he's done that since it was new. It's on 300k now).

[bstardchild]

* Do they still need the oil changed at around 600-1000 miles?

Not these days manufacturing tolerances and all that

* Does changing the oil more often than 10,000 miles cause undue engine damage because of the momentary lack of pressure before it circulates back from the pump and through to the temporary holding area that is the filter? More so than leaving the old oil in there longer?

NO...... Changing the oil frequently results in less wear to the engine

3-5K ideal

* Will thrashing it continuously between the 1,000 and 3,000 mile marks do any damage?

No more than the damage caused between 3,000 and 200,000 - thrashing is thrashing!!

[viceroy]

If you want to thrash the car, just make very sure that the engine is up to its correct operating temperature...so drive nice and slow for the fist 10 minutes or so, and then give it hell.

This will reduce the damage done to the engine, but thrashing is thrashing and will shorten the life of the engine at the very least

[Tahrey1043]

cheers ... the argument was along the lines of..

me: reccomending friend changes her oil soon-as because she'd passed the 1000 mile mark; having seen the enormous amount of swarf in the polos oil after running-in (looked like metallic paint) i was concerned she might damage the engine (particularly as her driving style is quite frantic, even a bit so during run-in)

him: calling me a moron basically and trying to make out that there's no wear-in at all. might have believed him if he'd simply said they were made precisely enough that there's not so much you need to change the oil.
(laser cut and pre-stressed parts, you mean that sort of thing?)

me: so they're making engines out of diamond these days then? why bother running it in at all, in that case? anyway, it wont harm to change the oil early just in case, before the first service.

him: yes it will! you change your oil too often (implication: less than 10,000 miles), the lack of pressure on starting it up will damage the components. you know how it rattles when you start it after?

me: no? i know the light stays on for all of a couple seconds, but there's still some thin protective film left unless you leave it empty for a couple weeks (like what i did with the polo, which is why i coated as many moving parts with oil by hand before re-fitting and starting up for the first time).

him: nah, it all comes out, plus what of the filter?

me: ????

him: well you see all that oil in the filter, that circulates into the engine more quickly...... *lots of BS about one way valves and the like* --- i stopped following by this point as he was breaking my mind. Basically his point was that the filter forms some kind of reservoir that means the pistons and cam are instantly lubricated when you turn the key

her: head in hands, having quickly finished pint. "shut up lads and concentrate on the quiz"

what i should have said --- "well, how about you re-fill the filter before fitting it? and if the oil doesn't go bad, why changed it at all?"
that would have peed on his parade...

anyway, nice one --- would this still apply to engines that aren't exactly up-to-the-minute, like the fiesta and MG ones?
(worse still - he's a mercedes mechanic ... would you want him servicing your merc? perhaps it applies to them, superb merc engineering and all being a class above the everyday econoboxes the rest of us drive. ... actually i later found out his "NVQ Level 2" qualification at the garage is something a bit below a GCSE, that means he knows how to plug a diagnostic computer into the ECU and turn it on. Gimp. For that, he earns over 20 grand a year!)

[andyg]

If you want to thrash the car, just make very sure that the engine is up to its correct operating temperature...so drive nice and slow for the fist 10 minutes or so, and then give it hell.

I always wait 10-15 mins before taking the revs over 3.5k or so.

I have a polo GTi and i regularly rev it up to 6k when accelerating, i was under the impression it doesn't damage the engine heh. I change the oil every 6k.

[Del_GTi]

I remember seeing a picture of the inside of 2 engines which had been taken apart to check for wear, both had about 150,000 miles on them, one had had an oil change every 5000 miles and the other every 10,000-12,000 in line with manufacturers recommendations.

You should have seen the difference, the engine with the oil change every 5000 looked brand new, compared to the other one.

Obviously the two cars may have been driven differently by their owners but it still showed a huge difference.

P.s. I change mine every 5000 miles.

[bstardchild]

I remember seeing a picture of the inside of 2 engines which had been taken apart to check for wear, both had about 150,000 miles on them, one had had an oil change every 5000 miles and the other every 10,000-12,000 in line with manufacturers recommendations.

You should have seen the difference, the engine with the oil change every 5000 looked brand new, compared to the other one.

Obviously the two cars may have been driven differently by their owners but it still showed a huge difference.

P.s. I change mine every 5000 miles.

http://www.tigerstyle.co.uk/poloforum/v ... php?t=8805

[Tahrey1043]

permission to take your original JPGs down to boots to get some 8x6 glossy prints out of their digital service, BC?

feel like laying those on the table next time out

though still, that was in an old senator wasn't it? not something "modern" like his ZR (pfffft!)

its just classic that i was hooning down the m40 to reading the other day and i pulled out to pass a ZR - only to spot a 10-ish year old stock rover 214 in front of it looking almost identical but for the lights, body kit and ride height - even down to the paint colour and the wheels! MG driver was probably following just because he couldn't beleive his eyes and all the wasted cash suddenly totted up in his mind (ZR is a 214, or ahem 25 1.4 even down to having the same engine)

[bstardchild]

permission to take your original JPGs down to boots to get some 8x6 glossy prints out of their digital service, BC?

Granted

feel like laying those on the table next time out

LOL

though still, that was in an old senator wasn't it? not something "modern" like his ZR (pfffft!)

Errr alloy head, DOHC, 24V's on a six pot - hardly old skool!!!

Oh and I have had Senators that have hit 300K on the orginal pistons!!!

Well they have had a head gasket (or two) and a set of rings but thats about it

Me and and a prehistoric Vauxhall with just 235 bhp sideways 2 weekends ago!!!

[Tahrey1043]

yeah i just need all the ammunition on my side with this one because common sense reasoning doesnt help when fighting against a single minded chav who's got a tiny bit of unbackedup knowledge from his NVQ and isnt afraid to use it to shoot down any reasoned argument...

i'd have decked the tosser on more than one occasion before now, but he's almost family