ach.. i surrender .. (anti roll bar)

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:49 pm

ok, ive got into a right pickle positioning-wise with getting the box in (gaz, no gloating, i so nearly had it - got it past the ARB & lower wishbone only to find that it being 2 inches too far back created more probs) .... think i need to suck it up, lower it back down (...somehow) so i have use of my scissor jack once more, and remove the anti roll bar

just in case i cant figure out by trial and error which size socket to use - or find i dont have anything that fits & need to buy/borrow/beg/steal something suitable - what will i be needing? do the nut-like things on top need holding with a spanner, or are they part of the chassis? and will they need a great deal of force to unscrew (over & above that needed to crack the rather obvious rust seal..)?

cheers

my sanity and bruised confidence thanks you
still, i got it up off the ground, and eventually onto the trolley-mounted jack with far less (but definately non-zero) hassle than expected, thats something to feel good about

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:56 pm

sorry, whats this post about? Are you trying to undo the front arb mounts? They use a 13mm socket and the nuts that they screw into are welded to the chassis. Dead easy to remove and the bolts arent tight, just undo them in stages.

quinny · Post by **quinny** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:47 pm

Tahrey. It is pretty unclear what you are on about.

I am interpretting it as:

Help, I need to remove my anti-roll bar as my car originally had a 4 speed gearbox where-as I have gone and found a 5 speed box that I have put on. Thus the ARB will not fit as I have not changed it for the 5 speed gearbox type anti-roll bar.

You need to seperate the ARB from the suspension/wheel bearing/Track control arm/ball joint group at the bottom of the leg. I have not yet done this so I can not help you. I would suggest asking the likes of Dan Barnes/Gaz or other's in the know about seperating the ARB from the ball joint cluster. You may not need to undo the top mounts at all.

P.S. Mk2/3 polos do not have wishbones as standard, they have TCA's which are single bar rather than a triangular wing.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:34 am

sorry think i was just getting in a tiz cuz it was dark and i couldnt get the thing to go in despite wasting a couple hours jacking it up and moving it around

going to try again now its light, maybe see it i can tilt it down at the back a whole lot, otherwise i'll have to remove the bar. dont know why, it just worries me a great deal irrationally

just hoping its the first suggestion thats right rather than the second, i.e. pop a jack under it for safety and undo the two mounts ... rather than unbolting all kinds of other stuff

thinking of roping in the gals at work who had me helping them get a poorly designed scanner unstuck after it moved into a position where the motor safety cutout activated, and the only manual cranking motion was blocked by protruding screws in much the same manner
(that ended up with a couple of nice gouges in the metal casework of the machine from the screws, however)

PS Track control arm, yep thats what i mean, sorry ... the metal bar that goes from car frame to the lowest point of the suspension rig, anyway.

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:30 pm

PS Track control arm, yep thats what i mean, sorry ... the metal bar that goes from car frame to the lowest point of the suspension rig, anyway.

That's all you need say, dude. Way too much $hit talking! I canny understand ye!

I'm lost. What stage are you up to now and why do you think you need to remove the TCA?

Can you just explain things normally.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:16 pm

not sure i get what you mean there either...

anyway ... stopped being such a girl about it and undid the ARB. couldn't get it out completely, maybe you have to split the bushes or something at the TCA, but just dropping it made all the difference. box is happily up and ALMOST in position, but something is stopping it going back on. any clues what?

might be the RH driveshaft but im not convinced by that too much (will have to see if i can withdraw it some), ditto the coolant pipes. they might be blocking it but it doesnt look too likely. can't really see anything in the way, the flywheel was initially but i sorted that. think it's the shaft spline not lining up with the socket on the clutch driven plate. total pain in the arse, ive been out there probably an hour with it in what looks to be almost the perfect place, but it wont go on any further no matter what i try, altering the position and angle, lifting/pushing it from different points, etc. is there a trick to it?

bad case of deja poo - i think i've been thru this sh*t before

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:49 am

yeah its a PIA to refit the box with the engine is situ. I found once that a brass bush had stayed in the box when it should have stayed in the engine. so I had two brass bushes trying to fight for the same hole. took me ages to figure out why it wasnt going on. If its close enough, sometimes getting a few bolts in can help. Theres no real trade secret here though. Youll just have to perservere, although I dont think jacking up the gearbox is gonna do it for you, Im afraid manhandling is the only way on this one, with maybe something to rest it on if need be (i found my toolbox was tall enough.

It is very hard to follow your train of thought at the moment dude. you keep digressing mid-sentence.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:48 am

sorry, it's a general problem with me, i try to keep on top of it as much as possible, but it all turns into a horrible mess when my concentration slips.
(this is why i want to employ someone as my editor

)

what's that bush thing? perhaps it was what caused the difficulty on removal as well.

i'm going to leave it on the jacks as i simply havent the muscle power to hold the entire thing up and move it around without quickly dropping it and fouling everything up (including myself). having slept on the situation though, i've dreamt (literally*) up some extra ideas on ways to move it around to try and mate the shaft in the hole.
ooh-er misses, etc

a small variation in angle might mean a large deflection at the business end after all

just waiting for the rain to stop or at least ease off a bit now

* yes, dreaming of cars, freaky i know. was on the boundary of conciousness though so there was a bit of control on the subject, it wasnt a natural obsession

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:10 pm

I presume you haven't touched the clutch, or did you fit a new one while the box was off? If so, it could be that you have not aligned the clutch properly, so the input shaft will not go in.

When me and Gaz did my box, we found that the box would just not budge that last extra bit. I was worried the clutch wasn't lined up properly, as we used a pikey clutch alignment tool (i.e a piece of tube with tape wrapped around it.)

Turned out it was the splines not lining up. They were simply just butting against each other. What I did was put the box into gear and hold one of the driveshaft flanges still, whilst rotating the other one a tiny bit (holding the other side still just stops the diff spinning on itself.)

Just wiggle it around and the splines should line themselves up and slide in.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:11 pm

ok

i'll give that a try. had a go at it, they're still a bit slimy despite a clean up so its difficult, but just about doable in 5th. bit like a crash change i suppose

(no, haven't touched the clutch - its fairly new so i wanted to leave it well alone)

question here is - is there likely to be any significant difference between the driveshaft flanges on the box between 4 and 5 speed, and/or the shafts themselves? i remember someone saying something like this earlier in the whole process, and on the pics i've scanned back through there does seem to be a difference in shape, especially that the RH one is a bit wider (and the LH one narrower?) in profile i.e. it sticks out more.
looking at the whole picture with the sun up, it does look like this is the current sticking point - the right hand shaft obstructing the movement of the box even when properly lined up. worth my while trying to move the engine to the right some, or is it going to be a case of getting the whole thing out of the car again and (somehow) swapping the flanges over? (i imagine the centre allen bolt is torqued up tighter than an F1 car's wheel)

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:36 pm

the driveshafts should be identical to a car with 5-speed. If you need more access, you can just turn the steering to full lock as this creates a bit more room

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:33 pm

another good tip there i think

full lock to the right, yeah?

anyway the flange bolt turned out to be stupidly easy to undo on both boxes (guess it only has to just keep the thing centred as the shaft usually holds it in place) ... forgot about the pressure of oil so theres a mess of course, but now im heading down with my ruler to check the size of one, then the other after ive swapped it

Gareth_GT_Hatch · Post by **Gareth_GT_Hatch** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:26 pm

I dont think you needed to remove the flanges. I think they look different lengths because the diff is narrower, not beacuse the driveshafts are shorter. its your funeral I guess.

As for which way to turn the steering, whatever works best.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:34 pm

first time for everything, dude

AKY right hand flange: about 10cm long
CEG right hand flange: about 11.5cm long

...the diffs look about the same width to me. in either case, the differential casing is flush with the bellhousing on both boxes so it shouldnt have made any difference to the apparent size of the flange

going to try fitting back together again now, with the shorter flange and the steering fully turned

maybe its some odd thing between the older A** / number-letter boxes, and the newer C** type ones? it's not a "proper" 8P, AHZ, etc after all

just hope the LH one is the same size - but should be a bit easier to swap than the RH one was anyway (having to drop the box again & all)

edit: great two new probs. flange wont turn at all now its on (lack of oil? overtightened? or just not compatible??), the other only with difficulty (suggesting - oil!). and the entire box is being a b***h and refusing to move the 5mm forwards in the engine bay that all the sightlines - and it's fouling on the clutch/flywheel - show it needs to be. nothing's visibly in the way, its just playing at being caught in a forcefield.