gti lump

cupra-dav · Post by **cupra-dav** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:58 am

hi folks...

getting a mk4 soon, and once i have finished the interior of the car, i am looking into getting the engine done.... however it is a 1.0 (which will do for the time being) but i am looking at the gti lump....

i think this will be straight forward enough.....

what sort of tuning options are available for the engine?

obvious things like cda, manifold, hi flow cat/decat....

but things like cams etc? what sort of bhp will these reach? and for how much?

cheers

Bryony84 · Post by **Bryony84** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:01 pm

The main problems with increasing the power above standard GTI power is the gearbox. Assuming the 1.0 gearbox is the same as the GTI one, it won't take much more power without failing. As far as I know, the GTI engine isn't particularly tuneable anyway.

cupra-dav · Post by **cupra-dav** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:07 pm

i think i would stick with the gti box maybe....

its not a problem if they arent very tunable but thought i would ask.... i think standard lump on a mk4 would be nice anyway!

Bryony84 · Post by **Bryony84** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:13 pm

Yeh, should be pretty nippy. As far as I know the best things to improve performance are making sure you've got a decent cold air feed and putting in a new exhaust and manifold.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:43 pm

If you are going to do a engine swap, the best engine to drop in is a 1.8T with a ko3s turbo. The actual cost of putting the engine in would be the same as dropping in a GTI engine. It should be straight forward enough to drop a 1.8T in as they share the same chassis is the Ibiza Cupra you may even find the drive shafts etc would be a straight swap. As there are so many 2nd hand 1.8Ts you can pick up complete engine/gearbox/ECU etc for under 1k

A remapped ko3s 1.8T is good for 230bhp/230lbft and the engine gearbox are bullet prof. It would take a lot of money to get the GTI engine to that and you would likely turn the gearbox to dust with that amount of power/torque through it.

Redline · Post by **Redline** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:45 pm

Over the years I've seen various people on here try to extract more power from the GTi engine.

This thread is fairly interesting reading: http://www.tigerstyle.co.uk/poloforum/v ... sc&start=0

Dee-vub · Post by **Dee-vub** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:06 pm

Dangerous Dave wrote:If you are going to do a engine swap, the best engine to drop in is a 1.8T with a ko3s turbo. The actual cost of putting the engine in would be the same as dropping in a GTI engine. It should be straight forward enough to drop a 1.8T in as they share the same chassis is the Ibiza Cupra you may even find the drive shafts etc would be a straight swap. As there are so many 2nd hand 1.8Ts you can pick up complete engine/gearbox/ECU etc for under 1k

A remapped ko3s 1.8T is good for 230bhp/230lbft and the engine gearbox are bullet prof. It would take a lot of money to get the GTI engine to that and you would likely turn the gearbox to dust with that amount of power/torque through it.

Are you on drugs mate??? There is a reason why companies charge Â£5-7000 to put a 1.8T into a polo. It is ANYTHING but straight forward and a polo GTI engine will fit a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.

Dave, i think your beiggest prob will be mounts if they are different on the mk4, but thats easily remedied.

When i put my GTI engine in, i'm hoping to tune it to about 160bhp. Full system including decat and manifold....BMC with cold air feed, port and polished, flowed head uprated crankshaft and cams etc etc. Should see you pushing big power and embarresing type R's

ModifiedMadness · Post by **ModifiedMadness** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:21 pm

The 180bhp 1.8T is by all accounts fairly straight forward, I've been told the mounts need fabricating but other than that there's not a lot to it.

The 225bhp is a different matter though.

My engine should hopefully be for sale in 3-4 months

Ian_R · Post by **Ian_R** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:25 pm

ModifiedMadness wrote:The 180bhp 1.8T is by all accounts fairly straight forward, I've been told the mounts need fabricating but other than that there's not a lot to it.

The 225bhp is a different matter though.

My engine should hopefully be for sale in 3-4 months

i hope you mean the gti, how much would you be looking for it ?

ModifiedMadness · Post by **ModifiedMadness** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:26 pm

Not too sure to be honest mate, the buyer would have to arrange collection though.

I may already have 1 person in the pipeline if they want it when the time comes.

More details will be put up nearer the time though

Dee-vub · Post by **Dee-vub** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:44 pm

ModifiedMadness wrote:The 180bhp 1.8T is by all accounts fairly straight forward, I've been told the mounts need fabricating but other than that there's not a lot to it.

The 225bhp is a different matter though.

My engine should hopefully be for sale in 3-4 months

i'v heard electrics can me a nightmare, gearbox mounts etc. There is alot more to it than being straight forward. If it was, trust me, i wouldnt have bought a GTI engine.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:53 pm

I'm certainly not on drugs, as modified madness said after the mounts are fabricated the engine drops straight in, the engine bay is the same size as an Ibiza Cupra and all bits are pretty much bolt on. I 've been told although not seen that Ibiza Cupra drive shafts are then a straight swap in. The wiring loom needs redone however you can merge a 1.8T Cupras loom into it. As I said there is no extra work after the mounts involved (if its a mK4 Polo you need different mounts for the GTI engine anway) in dropping in a 1.8T (bar maybe changing the fuel pump) to dropping a GTI engine into a 1L Polo. The cost difference would be down to the price difference in the engines which I suspect would be very small as there are so many 1.8Ts available to the small number of 1.6 16Vs the bonus being the 1.8Ts gearbox is rock solid.

My friend dropped a G60 into his Sirocco in his garage did the wiring loom himself, 4 pot brake conversion and rear disk converison. I helped him out a little so know whats involved in doing a engine swap. If I kept my Polo I was seriously considering picking up a written off Ibiza Cupra to swap the bits over and then get a ko3s turbo to replace the Cupra ko3. (the ko3 is only good for 200bhp ish)

To get 225bhp ish out a k03s 1.8T is pretty straight forward, FMIC, race cat and full exhaust and then a custom remap. If you want more power you could drop in the ko4'd engine out of a Leon R/S3 this is good for 270bhp ish with a remap etc. but its 6 speed box won't fit.

Dee-vub · Post by **Dee-vub** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:04 pm

Dangerous Dave wrote:I'm certainly not on drugs, as modified madness said after the mounts are fabricated the engine drops straight in, the engine bay is the same size as an Ibiza Cupra and all bits are pretty much bolt on. I 've been told although not seen that Ibiza Cupra drive shafts are then a straight swap in. The wiring loom needs redone however you can merge a 1.8T Cupras loom into it. As I said there is no extra work after the mounts involved (if its a mK4 Polo you need different mounts for the GTI engine anway) in dropping in a 1.8T (bar maybe changing the fuel pump) to dropping a GTI engine into a 1L Polo. The cost difference would be down to the price difference in the engines which I suspect would be very small as there are so many 1.8Ts available to the small number of 1.6 16Vs the bonus being the 1.8Ts gearbox is rock solid.

My friend dropped a G60 into his Sirocco in his garage did the wiring loom himself, 4 pot brake conversion and rear disk converison. I helped him out a little so know whats involved in doing a engine swap. If I kept my Polo I was seriously considering picking up a written off Ibiza Cupra to swap the bits over and then get a ko3s turbo to replace the Cupra ko3. (the ko3 is only good for 200bhp ish)

To get 225bhp ish out a k03s 1.8T is pretty straight forward, FMIC, race cat and full exhaust and then a custom remap. If you want more power you could drop in the ko4'd engine out of a Leon R/S3 this is good for 270bhp ish with a remap etc.

You make it sound like an everyday thing. You really think if it was that easy, wouldnt more people be getting stuck into this conversion. The mounts arent that easy, I'm pretty sure you need mounts from a mk2 golf and 9n polo unless they are custom made. The driveshafts DO NOT fit and need custom shafts made. The intercooler struggles to fit behind the bumper, the gearbox mounts are different. The chassis needs extra strengthening, along with the brakes and suspension upgraded. LSD would be a must if your running 200plus bhp. I'm pretty sure there is alot more. I researched this before when i was planning it and i can rest assure you, it is not very straight forward. Fair enough the GTI might need different mounts on a mk4, but ai seriously doubt you are going to rival the costs of the 1.8T.

My GTI converison is costing me Â£800 for EVERYTHING!

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:39 pm

I'm not saying its a everyday thing but I recon if you paid a garage to do both conversions the cost difference would be minimal. Both need mounts and electrical work. Its not as if folk are dropping in 1.616vs every other day either. If you then take into account the power difference I recon Â£ to bhp the 1.8T would be cheaper.

I would be surprised if the chassis needs strengthening as its essentialy identical to a Ibiza Cupra which takes 360bhp big turbo'd engine without any extra strengthening. The front and rear brakes on a GTI Polo anway are the same as the Cupras brakes after swapping the fronts to 280mm discs, I've driven a 230bhp Cupra without a LSD and with only uprated pads and discs and it took the power well (it did have its suspension done however), my friend runs 300bhp/310lbft Leon with no LSD and I would class that as borderline however in the dry its fine.

I recon more people don't do the conversion as they have bought a Ibiza Cupra instead !

ModifiedMadness · Post by **ModifiedMadness** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:47 pm

There's probably just not a lot of people willing to give someone Â£5000 to stick a new engine in their car when they can just go out and buy a new one

I just like to be different however