Hi all,
this question is about the New Polos with 1.6 engines which are sold outside Europe, but everyone - especially people with 1.6 Polos (like Josh and all other GTI 16V owners out there) can be a great help!
Be warned, however, that this post is long and has *A LOT* of technical specs so please bear with me and be a little condescending with my anorak-y curiosity.
I'm trying to determine the 'DNA' of my 1.6 engine, which VW Brasil calls EA-111. It's all very confusing because VWB has had four (!) different 1.6-litre engines in its line-up over recent years, though two of them have now been discontinued.
It's even more confusing because I checked Polo engine specs in the South African VW site to see if African Polos had the same engine as the American ones. Power and torque outputs were the same, but... Here's what I found out:
Our current 1.6s have the following specs: 8 valves, displacement 1598cc, bore x stroke 76.5 x 86.9 mm, compression ratio 10.8:1, max. power 74kW (100.6PS) @ 5500rpm, torque 140Nm (no idea what that is in lb-ft, sorry) @ 3250rpm. Engine block is titanium-reinforced cast-iron, with aluminium head and sump. It's also got roller cam followers to reduce valvegear friction, and E-GAS drive-by-wire among other techno-stuff I can't remember. Anyways, VW claims it's pretty modern but I have my doubts!
To me, this engine sounded like an upgrade of an engine VW has long used in Europe - its internal dimensions are the same as the Polo GTI's 1.6 16V unit (bore x stroke, displacement, etc), which leads me to believe what I got is a de-tuned (8v) version of the GTI's engine, and not the all-new powerplant VW claims it is.
Can anyone confirm the GTI's engine type (EA-111?), or internal dimensions, etc.?
I checked South Africa and they have a different 8v 1.6 in their Polos. Theirs' got 1595cc, 81 x 77.4 mm bore x stroke, and a 10:1 compression ratio. Power is the same 74kW @ 5500rpm, and torque is 140Nm but at 3300rpm.
These South African figures apparently indicate that the African Polo has the same 1.6-litre engine as the Citi Golf (SA mk.1 Golf). But this could also be the 1.6 'SR' engine (EA-113) from the mk.4 Golfs until 2001.
EA-113 has the same internal dimensions as the South African 1.6, same power output (but at 5600rpm, though this can be blamed on engine management), roughly the same compression ratio at 10.3:1 but quite different torque figures: 145Nm @ 3800rpm. It also has a variable intake manifold and it's entirely made of aluminium (block, head and sump). No roller cam followers or E-GAS, and it's a hefty 22kg heavier than EA-111 despite the all-alloy construction. Blame it on many extra moving parts and heavier peripheral componentry.
Anyways, to cut a long story short: which 1.6 equips the African Polo? Do the SA engines have iron or aluminium blocks, conventional or variable-geometry intake manifolds? E-GAS? Is it the Citi Golf engine?
And do I really have a de-tuned, 8v GTI engine? Because in that case this could be very interesting... Hehehehe
That's it. Sorry about all the technical stuff but that's the only way we can compare the engines I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Carlos
New Polo 1.6: how many different 1.6-litre engines?
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Babe RuthLess
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Babe RuthLess
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@polo2k
The specs came from different sources. My engine's were taken from a 2001 VW brochure about the new 1.6 engine. Others were taken from a Brazilian online car magazine called 'Best Cars' (http://www.uol.com.br/bestcars) and various other web sources. There are millions of Brazilian sites with VW engine specs (1/3 of the Brazilian fleet is VW) but it's all in Portuguese, and all in metric units as expected in Brazil. If you need full car/engine specs please PM me or post here and I'll post them to you.
I found out some more facts about EA-111: this name doesn't designate a single engine but rather a whole family of VW group engines. In fact, it's the most recent engine range developed by VAG - the FSI direct-injection petrols and the most recent TDI PDs belong to this family.
The engines were co-developed by VW (Germany and Brazil) and Skoda.
However it does seem that basic engine dimensions (and therefore probably the engine blocks) were carried over from previous VAG powerplants. Subsystems are probably different though, with emphasis on lower friction in EA-111. Does anyone else know something about this? Again, a GTI link would be interesting, mod-wise.
And what about the South African engine? The material I found on the 'net is confusing, some call the SA 1.6 EA-111, some don't, and the internal dimensions are different anyway...
The specs came from different sources. My engine's were taken from a 2001 VW brochure about the new 1.6 engine. Others were taken from a Brazilian online car magazine called 'Best Cars' (http://www.uol.com.br/bestcars) and various other web sources. There are millions of Brazilian sites with VW engine specs (1/3 of the Brazilian fleet is VW) but it's all in Portuguese, and all in metric units as expected in Brazil. If you need full car/engine specs please PM me or post here and I'll post them to you.
I found out some more facts about EA-111: this name doesn't designate a single engine but rather a whole family of VW group engines. In fact, it's the most recent engine range developed by VAG - the FSI direct-injection petrols and the most recent TDI PDs belong to this family.
The engines were co-developed by VW (Germany and Brazil) and Skoda.
However it does seem that basic engine dimensions (and therefore probably the engine blocks) were carried over from previous VAG powerplants. Subsystems are probably different though, with emphasis on lower friction in EA-111. Does anyone else know something about this? Again, a GTI link would be interesting, mod-wise.
And what about the South African engine? The material I found on the 'net is confusing, some call the SA 1.6 EA-111, some don't, and the internal dimensions are different anyway...
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polo2k
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well a little birdie told me that the fsi engines use a much higher injection pressure some where in the region of 10 times higher so when they built up the first fsi engine they fired it up and ran it for a few hours and then it stopped firing on one cylinder, then another so they stopped the engine and ran a diagnostic on it. the diagnostic didnt yield too many answers but when they tore down the moter they found some huge cuts in the piston crown where the injectors were fireing so ever since they have used ceramic coated pistons as the injetion pressure is so high it can cut through metal 
i do also remember being told thuings about teflon coated parts and the like
all this is in an effort to increace efficiency as a higher injection pressure gives a finer fuel mist which in turn mixes with the air better and since its only the surface that burns, the fuel burns faster, better, and more completly hence the lower emmisions and the increced economy is because there is less fuel eing thrown in the direction of the exaust while/before its burnt. as for the lower friction bits and bobs this means that say the engine produces 100 hp at 0 friction then when you add some friction some power is required to overcome the friction there fore less friction means more of the created power goes to the wheels.
as for my engine its in a 2000 polo its a 1.4 8v multi point injection petrol stock hp 60 hp (44Kw) AUD engine code
also used in:
caddy and lupo
i do also remember being told thuings about teflon coated parts and the like
all this is in an effort to increace efficiency as a higher injection pressure gives a finer fuel mist which in turn mixes with the air better and since its only the surface that burns, the fuel burns faster, better, and more completly hence the lower emmisions and the increced economy is because there is less fuel eing thrown in the direction of the exaust while/before its burnt. as for the lower friction bits and bobs this means that say the engine produces 100 hp at 0 friction then when you add some friction some power is required to overcome the friction there fore less friction means more of the created power goes to the wheels.
as for my engine its in a 2000 polo its a 1.4 8v multi point injection petrol stock hp 60 hp (44Kw) AUD engine code
also used in:
caddy and lupo
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ciden
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@ Carlos
Today I went to my local VW dealership and asked them about the engine that's fitted to my car. I got different answers from different people, but all of them assured me that it's not the one that's currently used in the City Golf (MK I). One guy said it's an engine all on it's own and another said, that it's the same engine which is used in the MKIV Golf - we opened up the hood of a 1.6 Golf Mk IV, and on the air-filter unit it said 1.6-SR. (I also have to add, the air-filter unit on a 1.6 Golf MKIV is far smaller than the one fitted to the Polo - if that means something?!?). I then went to the spares dept. and asked them, if I wanted to order an engine for a 9N Polo 1.6, what engine code I'd need to specify (unfortunately it was a bit late, and they will have an answer for me by tomorrow). I had a peek at my car's engine, and there are a lot of components with "made in Brazil" on it - so I guess our cars have the same engine.
Here's a comparison chart of the 1.6's available here:
City Golf (MKI)
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5500
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 140 @ 4000
Compression ratio - 10:1
Golf MKIV
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5600
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 145 @ 3800
Compression ratio - 10.3:1
Polo 9N
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5500
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 140 @ 3300
Compression ratio - 10:1
Something else that makes me think that our engines are similar, is because VWSA and VWB work close with each other. Take the Polo sedan for instance - how many countries make them? Anyways, hopefully I'll have an answer for you tomorrow
Today I went to my local VW dealership and asked them about the engine that's fitted to my car. I got different answers from different people, but all of them assured me that it's not the one that's currently used in the City Golf (MK I). One guy said it's an engine all on it's own and another said, that it's the same engine which is used in the MKIV Golf - we opened up the hood of a 1.6 Golf Mk IV, and on the air-filter unit it said 1.6-SR. (I also have to add, the air-filter unit on a 1.6 Golf MKIV is far smaller than the one fitted to the Polo - if that means something?!?). I then went to the spares dept. and asked them, if I wanted to order an engine for a 9N Polo 1.6, what engine code I'd need to specify (unfortunately it was a bit late, and they will have an answer for me by tomorrow). I had a peek at my car's engine, and there are a lot of components with "made in Brazil" on it - so I guess our cars have the same engine.
Here's a comparison chart of the 1.6's available here:
City Golf (MKI)
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5500
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 140 @ 4000
Compression ratio - 10:1
Golf MKIV
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5600
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 145 @ 3800
Compression ratio - 10.3:1
Polo 9N
Capacity (litres/cm³) - 1.6/1595
Bore/Stroke (mm) - 81/77.4
Power output (kW @ r/min) - 74 @ 5500
Torque (Nm @ r/min) - 140 @ 3300
Compression ratio - 10:1
Something else that makes me think that our engines are similar, is because VWSA and VWB work close with each other. Take the Polo sedan for instance - how many countries make them? Anyways, hopefully I'll have an answer for you tomorrow
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Babe RuthLess
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Thanks for the replies so far!
@polo2k
FSI engines being from EA-111 series doesn't mean all compenets are equal. In fact, I believe only the block and lower engine parts may be the same. It's true about all the special materials used in FSI (and indeed TDI) engines, I've read a lot of techincal papers on them from various lectures at Brazilian and German universities (when I have my geek cap on! ).
As for the South African engines, they seem to be very similar, and all are different from the S. American engine (different basic dimensions).
@Jacob
The 'SR' unit from the Golf is an older EA-113 series engine, and it's imported from Europe. That's the main reason why it was replaced by the 1958cc EA-111 engine in Brazil, as imported replacement parts were too expensive thus discouraging people from buying Golfs. Another reason for the change was that the 'SR' was taller than the newer unit, and that meant a lot of scraping and expensive repairs in bad roads like the ones we find in most parts of South America. These are two completely different engines, the 113 and the 111, as I described in the start of the topic.
It's true though that many people may find 'Made in Brazil' components in their engines, as VW's engine plant in S. Carlos is a major export facility. This article: http://www.adtp.org.br/english/visao/v13_01.htm says a few things about the plant, which supplies VW's 3 car factories in Brazil, plus VW lines in Argentina, Mexico, South Africa, Germany, the Czech Republic (Skoda) and Hungary (Audi) with one type of engine or another.
If your engine was made in Brazil then we definitely have the same engine and VWSA published the wrong specs in the website (someone probably just did a 'cut and paste' job with the Citi Golf specs, since power and torque were the same!).
I don't know much about the 9N hatchbacks, but the Classic sedans are assembled in South Africa from mostly Brazilian compenents (CKD). However, RHD-specific components such as the dashboard are either South African or imported from Europe, because it's been a while since Brazil made any RHD cars for export.
@polo2k
FSI engines being from EA-111 series doesn't mean all compenets are equal. In fact, I believe only the block and lower engine parts may be the same. It's true about all the special materials used in FSI (and indeed TDI) engines, I've read a lot of techincal papers on them from various lectures at Brazilian and German universities (when I have my geek cap on!
).As for the South African engines, they seem to be very similar, and all are different from the S. American engine (different basic dimensions).
@Jacob
The 'SR' unit from the Golf is an older EA-113 series engine, and it's imported from Europe. That's the main reason why it was replaced by the 1958cc EA-111 engine in Brazil, as imported replacement parts were too expensive thus discouraging people from buying Golfs. Another reason for the change was that the 'SR' was taller than the newer unit, and that meant a lot of scraping and expensive repairs in bad roads like the ones we find in most parts of South America. These are two completely different engines, the 113 and the 111, as I described in the start of the topic.
It's true though that many people may find 'Made in Brazil' components in their engines, as VW's engine plant in S. Carlos is a major export facility. This article: http://www.adtp.org.br/english/visao/v13_01.htm says a few things about the plant, which supplies VW's 3 car factories in Brazil, plus VW lines in Argentina, Mexico, South Africa, Germany, the Czech Republic (Skoda) and Hungary (Audi) with one type of engine or another.
If your engine was made in Brazil then we definitely have the same engine and VWSA published the wrong specs in the website (someone probably just did a 'cut and paste' job with the Citi Golf specs, since power and torque were the same!).
I don't know much about the 9N hatchbacks, but the Classic sedans are assembled in South Africa from mostly Brazilian compenents (CKD). However, RHD-specific components such as the dashboard are either South African or imported from Europe, because it's been a while since Brazil made any RHD cars for export.
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Josh_PoloGTi
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Hi there...
Sorry for coming into this topic so late.
I don't have the tech specs on my engine, but I know it is a Cast Iron Block with an Alloy Sump, it has DBW and Variable Inlet Valve Timing. It has Dual Overhead Cams, it's 1.6, 16v with 125bhp and 112lbft. It has a tubular exhaust manifold (not cast) and the ECU sealed with glue inside so it can't be tampered with (apparently). It redlines at about 6750rpm .... erm... That's about all I know.
Oh, it's pretty fast too!
Sorry for coming into this topic so late.
I don't have the tech specs on my engine, but I know it is a Cast Iron Block with an Alloy Sump, it has DBW and Variable Inlet Valve Timing. It has Dual Overhead Cams, it's 1.6, 16v with 125bhp and 112lbft. It has a tubular exhaust manifold (not cast) and the ECU sealed with glue inside so it can't be tampered with (apparently). It redlines at about 6750rpm .... erm... That's about all I know.
Oh, it's pretty fast too!
I've now also contacted VWSA via e-mail, and I'm awaiting an answer from them. Don't worry - I want to know the answer as well, so I won't let this case rest till we know!-
ciden
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@ Carlos
My VW dealer has left me in shame...they still don't have the information I requested. BUT...
Whilst washing the car today, and cleaning the engine, I noticed a part no. on an engine part - don't ask me what part it is...I don't know
I am not 'mechanically literate'!
Anyways, if you stand infront of the car with the airfilter unit infront of you, on the left hand side, look below...you'll see the left most spark plug (that much I know about engines). Just above it there's a part no. - 032 103 373 N (I think it's an N). If on you car the no. is the same, chances are our engines are the same...I think.
Hope this helps...a bit!
My VW dealer has left me in shame...they still don't have the information I requested. BUT...
Whilst washing the car today, and cleaning the engine, I noticed a part no. on an engine part - don't ask me what part it is...I don't know
I am not 'mechanically literate'!Anyways, if you stand infront of the car with the airfilter unit infront of you, on the left hand side, look below...you'll see the left most spark plug (that much I know about engines). Just above it there's a part no. - 032 103 373 N (I think it's an N). If on you car the no. is the same, chances are our engines are the same...I think.
Hope this helps...a bit!
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ciden
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@ Carlos....
At last!!! I got a reply from VWSA today - YAY!
Here it is...
At last!!! I got a reply from VWSA today - YAY!
Here it is...
This is the e-mail that I send to them...Hi Jacob
Here is the comment from our Product Engineer.
This is an EA111 engine and is unique to Polo,ie it is a different engine to
the A1,which has an EA827 engine and the A4,which has an EA113 engine. Hope
this helps.
Regards,
Wendy
So our engines are 'unique', but falling in the EA-111 range - good or bad?I'd like to know with what engine the 1.6 9N Polo is equiped with. Is it the EA-113 SR engine (as used in the Golf IV), the EA-111 or the same
engine as used in the City Golf 1.6i. Thank you very much!
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Babe RuthLess
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That's what I thought... The Citi Golf DEFINITELY doesn't have the EA-111 engine, so our Polos' engines are identical and possibly Brazilian-made.
The tech data on VWSA website has probably been cut and pasted from the Citi's data.
There's no EA-111 with the internal dimensions shown at www.vw.co.za.
Anyways having the EA-111 is a good thing. It's a great engine and suits the Polo perfectly. Fuel consumption is a bit too high and the engine's not as smooth as the Zetec-SE from Ford I used to drive (its r/l ratio is higher than normal at 0.31).
But mechanically it is bomb-proof and 74kW, 140Nm are more than enough for the little Polo in 'civilian' use... For those who like to 'improve' their engines (as I do) there's plenty of options around and if you're very rich you can always try to fit the entire 16V head from the mk5 Polo GTI!
The tech data on VWSA website has probably been cut and pasted from the Citi's data.
There's no EA-111 with the internal dimensions shown at www.vw.co.za.
Anyways having the EA-111 is a good thing. It's a great engine and suits the Polo perfectly. Fuel consumption is a bit too high and the engine's not as smooth as the Zetec-SE from Ford I used to drive (its r/l ratio is higher than normal at 0.31).
But mechanically it is bomb-proof and 74kW, 140Nm are more than enough for the little Polo in 'civilian' use... For those who like to 'improve' their engines (as I do) there's plenty of options around and if you're very rich you can always try to fit the entire 16V head from the mk5 Polo GTI!
Re: New Polo 1.6: how many different 1.6-litre engines?
another South African here, still driving my 2006 9n3 1.6i! and am still trying to figure out what is best on this car to gain some ponies! what are you guys doing to these motors over in brazil?