DSG Normality

[iainc]

We have just replaced our old 1998 1.4 Auto Polo for a shiney 2010 1.4 DSG. We also own a 2014 1.4 TSi DSG Octavia, so we are familiar with the DSG box in itself. However, the Polo seems ummm... sluggish, for want of a better description: specifically, the DSG will have engaged D7 by 40mph (level road, gentle acceleration), and will hold that gear until approx 35mph and lower if allowed to coast. Is this normal? The VW Dealer said that it was driving correctly (and it had a full service+ before we paid up). It's fine in Sport Mode, but, because of engaging the high gears so soon in Normal Mode, the car doesn't accelerate easily from modest speeds. It's not a 'delay' as such (as reported on Honest John, for example); it's just the consequence of trying to pull away in too high a gear. Is this a 'characteristic' of this engine/gearbox combination, or is it not normal?

[TheFrog]

At the risk of starting another auto v manual argument, I must say that, having owned 2 DSG VWs in the past, I have found the management systems very disappointing. Yes, the actual gear change is superb, but the 'box never seemed to know when to do it. Drive was too slow and Sport hung on to each gear far too long. Strange really, as the 'proper' auto 'box I had on my Jaguar XKR never suffered from these issues.

[Tooks]

I do think if I didn't have paddles on my GTI it would drive me a bit mad sometimes.

As TheFrog says, sometimes D seems a bit lazy, and S holds on to gears too long.

Having said that, D is optimised for economy I guess, and is very sensitive to throttle position. Does yours not hold on to each gear a bit longer if you press the accelerator pedal a bit more?

The other thing to remember is the DSG control unit has a learning function. After a while, I'm not sure how long that is, it should adapt more to your driving style.

It can be reset if you have VCDS, and it will learn afresh.

[iainc]

Apart from the almost invisible short-gear-ratio'd First Gear, the Octavia's 7-DSG works really well - changing up & down pretty much at the right time. And the Tsi engine has a surprisingly lively response. I wasn't expecting that sort of performance from the Polo's normally aspirated engine, but I would like to know from owners of our car's configuration whether our experience (as described in my post above) is normal, or whether it should be returned to the dealer for modification (software?). The car's history shows quite a low mileage in year 1, so I wonder if that is a factor. But, specifically, should it engage D6 by 30mph or D7 before 40mph, for example?

Tooks: I've heard that the DSG can 'learn', altho' I'm unclear how or to what extent. I don't have access to VCDS. Is this something that a Dealer could do? It will hold the gear longer if I accelerate harder, but our local roads (Cumbria, country) mean normal speeds are often 30 - 50; and it's from the 30/40 area that I may need to accelerate; and that's where the reluctance is felt. Sport Mode is much better, but I agree that it holds the gear for too long. Ideally, something in between would be best!

[Tooks]

I know our cars have different engines, but in D, my car certainly likes to change up at 1250-1500 rpm, and will often try to pull D7 at 40mph. The point where it changes down appears to be about 1300 rpm, or less, with gentle driving.

I think it is another legacy of tuning things for fuel efficiency, and maybe he relative lack of torque of the normally aspirated 1.4 accentuates/amplifies it?

The dealer can perform a DSG reset, and there may even be new software out for the controller, but might also be worth mentioning the accelerator pedal sensor as a culprit? They can also be reset.

[Steve9413]

On my 2015 BGT DSG i find that going uphill it changes a bit quicker than normal and on decline it holds the revs longer before changing but on the overall i'd say its gear changing is good.
However before i owned my BGT i had a 2013 DSG polo 1.4 and i found that the car would be in D7 by 40mph but i see this as normal as the car has no turbo to help it reach speeds quicker.

[iainc]

Update: following Tooks' advice, I took the car back to the dealer where they reset the DSG to factory default, and did something to the butterfly sensor for the accelerator, all foc. As a result, the gears seem to change more responsively and the drive feels 'lighter'. So, a good result, I think. It's never going to have the characteristics of a tsi engine, but, at least, it can now start to 'learn' afresh. Thanks for all your input and observations.

[pzboyz]

I have owned a 2013 BGT DSG since October, I am mostly happy with it, but the DSG does leave a little to be desired.

I also have a 2010 Scirroco 140BHP Diesel DSG for comparison.

Both cars have a habit of if you are lightly braking while going downhill and trying to apply enough pressure to stay at a constant speed, the DSG changes down a couple of times and is revving at high speed for no good reason.

So I know now to break quite hard just before I get to the crest of the hill and start going down it, get to the speed I want, then apply little or no pressure to the brake or accelerator pedal.

The DSG gearbox in the Polo is not as smooth as I would expect, certainly compared to the DSG gearbox in my other car which is a 2010 Scirocco.

In the Polo, when changing from D to S mode at slow speeds, preparing to overtake something, the car kind of lurches and struggles to match the revs as it changes down a gear. This is quite disconcerting. This does not as far as I can tell happen in the Scirocco.

When stopped, for examples at traffic lights, the start/stop system turns off the engine, when the lights change I find that sometimes when I release the brake and press the accelerator, the car can lurch into motion. This has happened on level ground.

The ACT function, I find when the engine is in 2-cylinder mode, often then engine creates a rattling sound for quite a few seconds before it switches back to 4-cylinder mode. This does not seem right.

The fuel economy is typically 47 to 50MPG, I have found no particular driving style where I can achieve near the claimed 61MPG (combined cycle) for any extended period of time. I can manage 50MPG in the Scirocco on the same kind of journeys with ease.

[markc123]

Your Scirroco probably had the 6 speed DSG, which has wet clutches and works a bit differently. I had one in a courtesy car and found it was smoother on take off and some changes.

When going down hill, I apply the brakes, wait for the gearbox to downshift to the correct gear and then let the car descend the hill using engine breaking - I'm actually quite impressed with this, previous autos that I have driven required manual selection of the correct gear.

At traffic lights, if you gently release the brakes, stopping short of actually disengaging, the car will start and then you are less likely to get a jerk as you set off.

My main gripe with it is the lag in taking off when you have not come to a complete halt - coast into a roundabout, slowing to 5-10mph, and then apply the throttle when you see its is clear and you can be left hanging while the gearbox wakes up - most disconcerting.

[pzboyz]

I think we have come to similar solution for getting the BlueGT to go down hills.

You also mention something I forgot to write about, that is the slowing down to a near stop and trying to accelerate again, such as at junctions or traffic lights.

Yep, I get this too, if you slow down, for example getting to a junction, or when going down a street with cars parked down one side making it difficult for two cars to pass, I find when I pull into a space just for a moment, to let a car coming the other direction to go past, I may not have actually stopped, but just like I find at a junction, when you ask it to accelerate again, the DSG is often in too low a gear, you put your foot down and the revs climb to about 3000 and ... and ... a its chooses a gear and you actually start accelerating. And the Stop/Start has not kicked in at this point either.

[TheFrog]

Journalists have been raving about VAG's DSG gearboxes ever since they first came out, but when you read through actual owner feedback on forums, it's quite a different matter.

I quite like 'proper' automatic gearboxes (i.e. ones with torque converters), but having owned 2 cars with DSG, I wouldn't get another one because I simply don't think they live up to the hype. That, plus the fact that VAG charges an arm and a leg for them.

[pzboyz]

The thing is, if the BlueGT DSG behaved the same as the Scirocco DSG, I would not be posting here at all.

So it might be the new DSG not an improvement for my driving style but maybe it is for others.

Because the Scirocco DSG worked well, is the reason why I considered the DSG on the Polo too, otherwise I would have chosen a manual and not paid the premium to get DSG.

[daveb73]

I have a 2012 Polo GTI DSG and I think the gearbox is superb. Yes it does have the odd niggle like not always choosing the gear you want when putting your foot down, but overall it's absolutely lovely to drive.

I only find it goes through the box up to 7th quickly when you apply really minimum throttle, when using the car normally it accelerates really smoothly and seems to select the appropriate gear at the appropriate time.

When I'm in the mood and anticipating an overtake I'll often use the paddle shift to select the appropriate gear and then go back to auto after I've had my fun. I only really use sport mode when I'm showing the car to a friend whose not been in one before.

Overall I think the DSG works great in the Polo and is especially great in heavy traffic, it obviously helps with economy as well

I wouldn't swap it for a manual

[tomtoon2015]

The fuel economy is typically 47 to 50MPG, I have found no particular driving style where I can achieve near the claimed 61MPG (combined cycle) for any extended period of time. I can manage 50MPG in the Scirocco on the same kind of journeys with ease.

Tbh diesel cars always get higher MPG, it would be a worry if it didn't get that sort of MPG. I would say 50MPG in a petrol with the power of the BGT isn't bad tbh

[daveb73]

Petrol technology is beginning to surpass diesel and these new smaller turbo charged petrols are beginning to outgun diesel on economy. Diesel is a dying breed, small charged petrol is where the development money is going.