Polo Rescue Mission - Advice needed!

[GrahamT66]

Quick bit about me.... Not quite an Old Fart, work shifts, grown up family. Hobby mechanic, done all sorts of stuff (welding, painting, all the oily stuff including several engine swaps), not majorly into modding or showing cars just really do it to keep mine (and anyone who asks me) on the road! I don't often get stuck but when I do, well, here I am!!

Quick bit about the situation... Dearest neice (Just finished Uni, working as a nurse, not much money to spend!) passes test and rushes out to buy first pretty VW badge she could find with car attached. 52 plate 1.2L Polo. Drives from Exeter to Herefordshire to visit family, first time on the motorway. Drops in to see me on the way home and show off her car. Ooooh look, someone pinched a cylinder!! She tells me it uses a bit of oil. How much? Proceeds to take 2L can out of the boot and pours most of it straight into the engine and says "I'll probably need to do that again tomorrow" I advise her to get a compression test done when she gets home and let me know the results. An hour later I get a phone call. Broken down on the M5. Oh dear.

The story so far.
I buy cheap runaround to get her mobile while I fix hers. Insurance co. say transferring insurance over will cost you £200 to transfer the black box. I could rant here
So need to get hers fixed asap. Search for and find similar Polo for "spares or repairs" with good engine so I can do a quick switcheroo with the dead engine. Now I discover that not only has someone pinched a piston out of her car, they've also pinched 3 valves out of this one!! Well, not my fault, I didn't know did I !!
So, I've got a dead 9 valve engine and a good 6 valve engine to replace it. Really good compression test results (210, 210, 230 psi) In fact the whole car is in really good nick. Seller flogged it because it had a few issues with the brakes (probably fixable) and the engine light was on (O2 sensor he was told by the garage) He's got a 2nd kiddy on the way and was offered an estate car at a price he couldn't refuse. Not mechanically minded so just sold the Polo. No point in me fixing it cos the £200 the insurance co. would fleece DN for (oooh I nearly did rant again...) Follow me so far?? Good. Here's my dilemma....

If I swap 9v engine for 6v engine will the ECU get all upset?

If so, can it be reprogrammed?

If not, any suggestions? (nothing rude please!!)

What diagnostic lead/software do you guys use?

Should I swap just the engine or engine and gearbox?
The outer CV joint on the passenger side has a split so that needs to fixed. Is there any advantage to be had with the engine (& Gearbox) out? Or just do it from the hub side?

Her car has aircon, can I move that onto the new engine? (can the compressor be mounted on the 6v engine?

Anything else I need to think about (alternator, power steering, exhaust and cat, electrics?)

Anything I can do while the engine is out? (new drive belt? new clutch? etc.)

Thanks for any help and advice, looking forward to your replies.

Cheers,
Graham

[RUM4MO]

This sounds like a multiple disaster really, swopping different tyres of engine about will be problematic in many ways I'd reckon, plus I'd guess the 6v is not fitted with an AC pump as that would remove too much power from a low powered engine. Not good!!

VCDS is what most people use on VAG cars, makes sense if you feel like you might just remain a VAG person/family for a while.

Cost for swopping monitor, does not surprise me but it is the first time I've seen it said!

Good advice, I've not got any as I've always avoided the 1.2 3pot engines, they do seem to be falling down flat a lot nowadays - as reported in these VAG (Fabia/Polo/Ibiza) forums - each time it seems "take engine out > take engine to dump". I am old enough to remember having a few Ford 1.6 CVH engine cars, and at about 2 years from new thinking "time to see about another one" as these engines sounded like they too would be best placed in a skip after a few years - scared me away from Ford they did!

I hope someone comes along and proves me wrong here! BTW, there tends to be a bit more "oily hands" action going on in the Skoda (briskoda) and Ibiza (seatcupra) forums, just the way it is that is all!

Edit:- I have a friend who let his daughter buy one of them - well either 6V or 12V (or is that 9V) and amazingly that car is still running roughly 6 years later, she has a late 2003 model I think.

Another Edit:- my wife had a 1.4SE Polo from new in September 2002 until we chopped it in for another new Polo in August 2015, that Polo was a little sh*t, everything about the suspension that could go wrong did and it kept asking for more money from the age of 4.5 years from new, plus it ended up rusting anywhere/everywhere, engine was okay though as was gearbox, it lasted 105K miles and was used every day, but still I'd say it was a little sh*t - and that is due to Polo just being a nasty little version of a Fabia with slightly better clothes - bad bad bad !! (ps, Skoda suppliers only ever use rubbish grades of steel and any common parts across that platform are Skoda crap) - again, bad bad bad, and now I've bought wife a ZA assembled new Polo???!!!!

[GrahamT66]

Thanks mate, I appreciate your candour!
I was always a BL man. All cars were sh*t back then. It was basically choose the least worse LOL!
But they didn't have ECUs. hmmmm
Cheers,
Graham

[GrahamT66]

For 9v read 12v
D'oh

[alexperkins]

With regards to insurance, if you are not doing a like for like swap, the insurance is ultimately invalidated anyway as the power output is different, the engine code is different, the emissions could be different (thus your tax could be incorrect)

If you choose to go ahead, you may well need to swap over the engine loom, and definately the ECU as these are programmed to the engine its controlling.

The rest should be the same

As RUM says, AC on a 6V would probably suck too much power out

If you are doing a swap, it would be a true lift and shift. You wouldnt start playing the component game.

[GrahamT66]

Hi Alex, thanks for your comments. Oh poop. Didn't think about insurance co and replacement engine.

If I do the engine swap and tell the insurance co. they might want an engineers report, which I could get. They would want that even if I just changed the engine, probably, if we told them. DVLA would need to be told too, for the log book.
As the replacement unit is lower power they shouldn't hike the premium and, in fact, the premium is the exact same amount for a different car so I presume this is just a set amount for a novice driver with a Gp.1/2 car. The idea is to save the cost of them swapping the black box (for the insurance) to a different car. (£200, before we add in admin costs etc.). There's plenty of kids going around sticking bigger engines in, so I can't see this being a major issue but it is an insurance company we're talking about so any excuse for £££ I guess.

If I do a like for like swap, will the existing ECU be happy with the new engine? Or is it coded to the engine? I see lots of engines for sale on eBay but no mention of having to get the ECU recoded, but then why would they mention it.

Unless I can get a 12v engine between now and monday/tuesday I think I will put the 6v engine in and see what happens. If I need to swap the ECU I can do that. Then, if I get it running my neice can tell the insuance co. that it has got a replacement engine. If they ask for the number of valves she can tell them. Otherwise it's just another 1.2L engine. Isn't it

[alexperkins]

It's not so much the premium with a smaller engine. It's more the car has been modified against its original specification.

It'll also go on record as an engine change if it was HPI checked

You will need the matching ECU to go with the engine as each engine has a matching ECU depending on the deign etc

Another thing to consider is yes it's a 1.2 but it's not what it came with.

I would strongly suggest getting a like for like. Try stephens vw dismantlers

[GrahamT66]

It would be modified if alloy wheels were put on.
And it would have an engine change recorded anyway.
The car is such a low value, who would care, it might even be seen as a bonus!
And, yes, if I had the exact same engine I'd fit it, but I don't. I just need to know the technicalities.

I'm not ever buying a bare engine again. Been bitten too many times buying a "fully tested" engine.
If they say that on their ad (eg on eBay) they should HAVE to provide the test results e.g. compression tests.
That's exactly why I bought a whole car, so I could drive it and test it myself.
I just chose the wrong car

[alexperkins]

Insurance and the DVLA will care. If its not identical to original spec, premiums rise. Makes no difference if the output is smaller - they dont see it that way

For what youll look to spend time wise, and the fact you have to loose the air con etc, the £200 cost to swap the box over seems alot more attractive. Will they not budge on the cost? Most insurance companies are somewhat flexible

[GrahamT66]

Dearest Neice is now checking with the insurance co. so we'll find out what the score is concerning the engine swap.

In the mean time, does anyone have wiring diagrams or schematics for the 6v and 12v ECUs please?

[GrahamT66]

The insurance co. have said either engine is fine, just advise them when the car is back on the road and which engine.
So I'm going to fit the 6v and see how far I get. Good job I like banging my head against a brick wall!!
And there are 6v cars out there with a/c fitted too so that should also be fine!
No, honestly, I am not compleeeetly mad!!

[alexperkins]

I'm surprised they are that welcoming! Normally they'll make it rather difficult!!

Remember to swap the loom, all ancillaries and the ECU afross

[GrahamT66]

ow... ow... ow... ow... thats enough. Goldarn it. I expected a few issues here and there but not straight away. Glad I had a good look first though, not find out half way through dismantling the car.

On the 12v car there is just one petrol line to the injectors.
On the 6v car there is an additional line for the return from the injectors.
That means having to take the plastics off the bottom of the car, thread in the extra line and then swap the tanks over + goodness knows what else. Pump? Sensor?
I don't know and I now don't care. Should have listened to you straight away Alex. Gonna get a 12v engine. C'est la vie.

[RUM4MO]

Good! Remember the exact like for like advice, that means finding the engine code of the engine fitted, and sourcing another with the same code.

I seem to remember that for that age of car, the engine code should be on the chain cover area - on a stuck on paper label, it will be a three letter code.

[GrahamT66]

AZQ or BME ??
Are there major differences ?