MPG Question

[Andy Beats]

Unless you can point to a part number difference, I don't believe the clutch would be different between a 95BHP and 115BHP Tsi.
So tuning a 95bhp up to around the level of a 115bhp version should be perfectly fine.
Like I said, unless you can show a part number differences in the clutch.

[monkeyhanger]

Unless you can point to a part number difference, I don't believe the clutch would be different between a 95BHP and 115BHP Tsi.
So tuning a 95bhp up to around the level of a 115bhp version should be perfectly fine.
Like I said, unless you can show a part number differences in the clutch.

The clutch may be the same in both (haven't checked), but if your 95ps Polo is now running 115ps, but with more torque than the official 115ps unit, that may well do your clutch in. Torque kills clutches, not power.

The Golf R and GTI manual share the same clutch. They have potentially 90ps between them (lowest output mk7 GTI is 220ps - highest output R was 310ps post facelift), but essentially, not a big difference in peak torque.

People remap their GTI to 300ps and think it's fine because the R has 300/310ps, but their remapped GTI is kicking out 20% more torque than the stock R and the clutch can't handle it. Pretty much everyone on the Golf GTI forum that has mapped/tune boxed their GTI or R has suffered clutch slip shortly after. Those that do either revert back or bite the bullet and buy a new more resilient clutch from Sachs - and maybe a new flywheel if the slip has scorched theirs. The TDIs are far more robust for tuning without hardware modification.

For reasons previously explained, actual fuel gains are fantasy.

[Andy Beats]

Unless you can point to a part number difference, I don't believe the clutch would be different between a 95BHP and 115BHP Tsi.
So tuning a 95bhp up to around the level of a 115bhp version should be perfectly fine.
Like I said, unless you can show a part number differences in the clutch.

The clutch may be the same in both (haven't checked), but if your 95ps Polo is now running 115ps, but with more torque than the official 115ps unit, that may well do your clutch in. Torque kills clutches, not power.

The Golf R and GTI manual share the same clutch. They have potentially 90ps between them (lowest output mk7 GTI is 220ps - highest output R was 310ps post facelift), but essentially, not a big difference in peak torque.

People remap their GTI to 300ps and think it's fine because the R has 300/310ps, but their remapped GTI is kicking out 20% more torque than the stock R and the clutch can't handle it. Pretty much everyone on the Golf GTI forum that has mapped/tune boxed their GTI or R has suffered clutch slip shortly after. Those that do either revert back or bite the bullet and buy a new more resilient clutch from Sachs - and maybe a new flywheel if the slip has scorched theirs. The TDIs are far more robust for tuning without hardware modification.

For reasons previously explained, actual fuel gains are fantasy.

Not sure what the difference in torque is between the 95bhp and 115bhp.
The tuning box adds 30NM
I'd imagine that's in line with the 115bhp, not more.

[Adam_013]

In all fairness if your getting sub 50mpg it has to be down to driving style / car being run-in... No matter if I drive nicely or a bit spirited a journey is very rarely under 45mpg, normally mid 50s. I'd say give it a few thousand miles and then think a out it.

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[Andy Beats]

In all fairness if your getting sub 50mpg it has to be down to driving style / car being run-in... No matter if I drive nicely or a bit spirited a journey is very rarely under 45mpg, normally mid 50s. I'd say give it a few thousand miles and then think a out it.

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Sub 50?!
I'm getting sub 40 if I even go near the middle of the rev range, never mind thrashing it.
To get over 40mpg I have to change gear exactly when the gearchange indicator says so (very low revs indeed), and only tickle the throttle.
I'll see what the next thousand miles or so brings.
Even if MPG isn't improved, I think the tuning box will just make it a nicer car to drive.
Some would say I should have ordered the 115bhp in the first place, but this was an in-stock car and I didn't have a choice.

[Adam_013]

Well yeah, I agree there, I wish I got the 115 mainly for the 6 gears, to try and make it nicer to drive. I do still think about getting it mapped but still unsure how it'll cope with 260nm and 130hp (apparently).

I'm sure mpg will increase as the miles go on - mine certainly did.

In all fairness if your getting sub 50mpg it has to be down to driving style / car being run-in... No matter if I drive nicely or a bit spirited a journey is very rarely under 45mpg, normally mid 50s. I'd say give it a few thousand miles and then think a out it.

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Sub 50?!
I'm getting sub 40 if I even go near the middle of the rev range, never mind thrashing it.
To get over 40mpg I have to change gear exactly when the gearchange indicator says so (very low revs indeed), and only tickle the throttle.
I'll see what the next thousand miles or so brings.
Even if MPG isn't improved, I think the tuning box will just make it a nicer car to drive.
Some would say I should have ordered the 115bhp in the first place, but this was an in-stock car and I didn't have a choice.

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[Kittycat]

I am in the same mind set
Although I want a economical car
If I could change three things about my car
I would have gone with the 115ps
Had LED lights
Possible lane assist as an extra
Apart from that I do like my car although find the gear box very clunky, into reverse twice I’ve nearly left the gear box back there on the ground not putting it in properly and the sound

[Adam_013]

Me too, certain options I really would of liked such as led headlights and the 115. An armrest would be great too!

And same here with the gearbox. The same box and engine in parents A1 is far superior and slick to use.

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[Andy Beats]

If you wish you had LED lights, get Osram 'cool blue intense' bulbs.
I promise you, they are as white as pure LED headlights.
I had pure LED headlamps on my Nissan Leaf, the Osrams match them.
Bulb replacement on the Polo is also very easy.
Remember you need four bulbs in total (unless, of course, you only want the dipped beam to be white and are happy for main beam to be yellow)

[Adam_013]

Perhaps so, but mainly just for the aesthetics and led indicators... For me anyway, the osrams do make a difference too, Had them in the old polo.

An armrest is available from TPS too, just at a cost of £300!

If you wish you had LED lights, get Osram 'cool blue intense' bulbs.
I promise you, they are as white as pure LED headlights.
I had pure LED headlamps on my Nissan Leaf, the Osrams match them.
Bulb replacement on the Polo is also very easy.
Remember you need four bulbs in total (unless, of course, you only want the dipped beam to be white and are happy for main beam to be yellow)

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[Kittycat]

Me too, certain options I really would of liked such as led headlights and the 115. An armrest would be great too!

And same here with the gearbox. The same box and engine in parents A1 is far superior and slick to use.

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When I ordered my car I said I wasn’t going to loose what I had on my car already
Parking sensors
Armrest
Autodip mirror
Bluetooth

My big spec was the winter pack as always wanted heated seats

My dealer did say the R line would have all this as standard so it was better to go for the R line which I did
If only she had muttered LED head lights
Hubby has them on his Golf

[mike sel]

Me too, certain options I really would of liked such as led headlights and the 115. An armrest would be great too!

And same here with the gearbox. The same box and engine in parents A1 is far superior and slick to use.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

The 115 also has rear disks instead of drums. Being able to stop is far more important than the extra speed, in my book anyway.

I got fed up years ago with wishing I had this or that on my car. So for the last few cars I have gone to the dealer a year before my planned change and specked my new car, I tend to go 4 years and start the looking process at year 3. I don't like big cars so I look for cars around 4.1 mtrs long. So finding the new Polo was perfect for me especially being able to spec it like it was a much bigger car (never understood why you coudnt order a small car with all the same toys as a large car). I like economy and enough power to be able to generally keep up with traffic. Looks are not the biggest attraction for me so for me the SEL was perfect I just had to add a few toys. Winter pack, driver mode, blind spot, heated folding mirrors, keyless/ button start stop, park assist, rear camera, crash protection, DSG, digital dash etc etc. in total the cat came to £22500 so I went through car wow and got a good deal, I still went though my local dealer (I could have saved more had I chosen the cheapest quote but the dealer was 90+ miles away).

These days I just order what I want, no regrets.

[monkeyhanger]

Me too, certain options I really would of liked such as led headlights and the 115. An armrest would be great too!

And same here with the gearbox. The same box and engine in parents A1 is far superior and slick to use.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

The 115 also has rear disks instead of drums. Being able to stop is far more important than the extra speed, in my book anyway.

I got fed up years ago with wishing I had this or that on my car. So for the last few cars I have gone to the dealer a year before my planned change and specked my new car, I tend to go 4 years and start the looking process at year 3. I don't like big cars so I look for cars around 4.1 mtrs long. So finding the new Polo was perfect for me especially being able to spec it like it was a much bigger car (never understood why you coudnt order a small car with all the same toys as a large car). I like economy and enough power to be able to generally keep up with traffic. Looks are not the biggest attraction for me so for me the SEL was perfect I just had to add a few toys. Winter pack, driver mode, blind spot, heated folding mirrors, keyless/ button start stop, park assist, rear camera, crash protection, DSG, digital dash etc etc. in total the cat came to £22500 so I went through car wow and got a good deal, I still went though my local dealer (I could have saved more had I chosen the cheapest quote but the dealer was 90+ miles away).

These days I just order what I want, no regrets.

Most of the kit paid for as extras there is standard on the GTI+. On a depreciation point of view, it would have been cheaper buying the GTI+, as the extras add very little to the used value when selling or trading in. There is economy to factor in but I'd expect the GTI+ to be worth £2500-3000 more than an SEL with a lot of options at 3 years old. £3k can buy a lot of fuel!

Something to consider in the overall cost of car ownership - depreciation dwarfs fuel economy savings, and with ACC being a standard fit on a GTI+, this seems to have been considered in insurance premiums. My wife has been driving only 3 years, with 3 years NCD. Polo is costing £325 insurance with her as main driver (I'm main driver for the Golf R). Same circumstances but swapping car for standard GTI and 115SEL are £368 and £334 respectively with same insurer. Could make a big difference for a young driver.

[mike sel]

Me too, certain options I really would of liked such as led headlights and the 115. An armrest would be great too!

And same here with the gearbox. The same box and engine in parents A1 is far superior and slick to use.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

The 115 also has rear disks instead of drums. Being able to stop is far more important than the extra speed, in my book anyway.

I got fed up years ago with wishing I had this or that on my car. So for the last few cars I have gone to the dealer a year before my planned change and specked my new car, I tend to go 4 years and start the looking process at year 3. I don't like big cars so I look for cars around 4.1 mtrs long. So finding the new Polo was perfect for me especially being able to spec it like it was a much bigger car (never understood why you coudnt order a small car with all the same toys as a large car). I like economy and enough power to be able to generally keep up with traffic. Looks are not the biggest attraction for me so for me the SEL was perfect I just had to add a few toys. Winter pack, driver mode, blind spot, heated folding mirrors, keyless/ button start stop, park assist, rear camera, crash protection, DSG, digital dash etc etc. in total the cat came to £22500 so I went through car wow and got a good deal, I still went though my local dealer (I could have saved more had I chosen the cheapest quote but the dealer was 90+ miles away).

These days I just order what I want, no regrets.

Most of the kit paid for as extras there is standard on the GTI+. On a depreciation point of view, it would have been cheaper buying the GTI+, as the extras add very little to the used value when selling or trading in. There is economy to factor in but I'd expect the GTI+ to be worth £2500-3000 more than an SEL with a lot of options at 3 years old. £3k can buy a lot of fuel!

Something to consider in the overall cost of car ownership - depreciation dwarfs fuel economy savings, and with ACC being a standard fit on a GTI+, this seems to have been considered in insurance premiums. My wife has been driving only 3 years, with 3 years NCD. Polo is costing £325 insurance with her as main driver (I'm main driver for the Golf R). Same circumstances but swapping car for standard GTI and 115SEL are £368 and £334 respectively with same insurer. Could make a big difference for a young driver.

monkeyhanger No offence intended but...I am surprised at you, that's the first time I have seen a post from you that was not considered, you are normally better than the rest of us what has brought you down to our level LOL.

You cannot argue the point the GTI+ is better value then the SEL (by some 3k over 3 years) with the extras I have chosen by simply pretending all the extras I have chosen were std on the GTI + when many were not. Also you need to factor in the increased GTI + car tax per year, premium fuel, + add the extras that I chose which were not available on the GTI+ as standard, dont forget the increased tyre cost and ware that comes with GTI ownership.

To be fair I don't think I would have received the GTI+ by now even if I had ordered it. Many are still waiting who ordered ages ago. (cant remember if it was even available for me to order on the 28th Jan).

Despite the fact I did not want 197HP or the extra tyre ware, increased insurance premium, reduced fuel econ, the more frequent visits to the fuel station or the harder/ lowered ride. I did have a look at the spec and priced it in March from the configurator. Working form memory I would still have had to turn to the options list for the rear camera ( I use it every day) climate control (Mrs likes it warmer than I), heated seats (Mrs backside is like an ice cube), occupant crash protection, park assist, blind spot warning (, I even think I would have had to order VW sat nav at £600 on the GTI+.

As far as I can remember the only extras I ordered that overlapped were ACC, push button start, digi dash, driver mode, heated folding mirrors. the other extra that I did not want that came with the GTI + were LED lights. I can remember how much the GTI+ was but I think about 24k + the options I detailed above, also I think it came in red as standard? I wanted grey so I would have had to add that as an extra too another 500+ quid. I think when I configured the GTI+ with my spec through carwow it came to 23.5k the SEL was just over 20.4k with all my options. VW also gave me deposit contribution (I know it would be there for both cars) 2 free services and some leads for my iPhone connection.

In my book ALL extra costs considered, even IF I wanted a GTI+ (which I didn't) I doubt very much that after 3 years there will be a huge difference in OVERALL cost ( 1x grand at the most, and as I purchased the car through Carwow I saved big time over list anyway, probably close to the extras cost).

I get the point you are trying to make, but please run it again with all the above costs taken into account. Making a firm case for the GTI+ on a 3 year cost basis by taking in only some of the costs is not your style.

As for me I can get away with 1/2 baked as that would be an upgrade for me.

[monkeyhanger]

The 115 also has rear disks instead of drums. Being able to stop is far more important than the extra speed, in my book anyway.

I got fed up years ago with wishing I had this or that on my car. So for the last few cars I have gone to the dealer a year before my planned change and specked my new car, I tend to go 4 years and start the looking process at year 3. I don't like big cars so I look for cars around 4.1 mtrs long. So finding the new Polo was perfect for me especially being able to spec it like it was a much bigger car (never understood why you coudnt order a small car with all the same toys as a large car). I like economy and enough power to be able to generally keep up with traffic. Looks are not the biggest attraction for me so for me the SEL was perfect I just had to add a few toys. Winter pack, driver mode, blind spot, heated folding mirrors, keyless/ button start stop, park assist, rear camera, crash protection, DSG, digital dash etc etc. in total the cat came to £22500 so I went through car wow and got a good deal, I still went though my local dealer (I could have saved more had I chosen the cheapest quote but the dealer was 90+ miles away).

These days I just order what I want, no regrets.

Most of the kit paid for as extras there is standard on the GTI+. On a depreciation point of view, it would have been cheaper buying the GTI+, as the extras add very little to the used value when selling or trading in. There is economy to factor in but I'd expect the GTI+ to be worth £2500-3000 more than an SEL with a lot of options at 3 years old. £3k can buy a lot of fuel!

Something to consider in the overall cost of car ownership - depreciation dwarfs fuel economy savings, and with ACC being a standard fit on a GTI+, this seems to have been considered in insurance premiums. My wife has been driving only 3 years, with 3 years NCD. Polo is costing £325 insurance with her as main driver (I'm main driver for the Golf R). Same circumstances but swapping car for standard GTI and 115SEL are £368 and £334 respectively with same insurer. Could make a big difference for a young driver.

monkeyhanger No offence intended but...I am surprised at you, that's the first time I have seen a post from you that was not considered, you are normally better than the rest of us what has brought you down to our level LOL.

You cannot argue the point the GTI+ is better value then the SEL (by some 3k over 3 years) with the extras I have chosen by simply pretending all the extras I have chosen were std on the GTI + when many were not. Also you need to factor in the increased GTI + car tax per year, premium fuel, + add the extras that I chose which were not available on the GTI+ as standard, dont forget the increased tyre cost and ware that comes with GTI ownership.

To be fair I don't think I would have received the GTI+ by now even if I had ordered it. Many are still waiting who ordered ages ago. (cant remember if it was even available for me to order on the 28th Jan).

Despite the fact I did not want 197HP or the extra tyre ware, increased insurance premium, reduced fuel econ, the more frequent visits to the fuel station or the harder/ lowered ride. I did have a look at the spec and priced it in March from the configurator. Working form memory I would still have had to turn to the options list for the rear camera ( I use it every day) climate control (Mrs likes it warmer than I), heated seats (Mrs backside is like an ice cube), occupant crash protection, park assist, blind spot warning (, I even think I would have had to order VW sat nav at £600 on the GTI+.

As far as I can remember the only extras I ordered that overlapped were ACC, push button start, digi dash, driver mode, heated folding mirrors. the other extra that I did not want that came with the GTI + were LED lights. I can remember how much the GTI+ was but I think about 24k + the options I detailed above, also I think it came in red as standard? I wanted grey so I would have had to add that as an extra too another 500+ quid. I think when I configured the GTI+ with my spec through carwow it came to 23.5k the SEL was just over 20.4k with all my options. VW also gave me deposit contribution (I know it would be there for both cars) 2 free services and some leads for my iPhone connection.

In my book ALL extra costs considered, even IF I wanted a GTI+ (which I didn't) I doubt very much that after 3 years there will be a huge difference in OVERALL cost ( 1x grand at the most, and as I purchased the car through Carwow I saved big time over list anyway, probably close to the extras cost).

I get the point you are trying to make, but please run it again with all the above costs taken into account. Making a firm case for the GTI+ on a 3 year cost basis by taking in only some of the costs is not your style.

As for me I can get away with 1/2 baked as that would be an upgrade for me.

I thought it was pretty well considered - annual car tax is the same across the board now (for all but the thirstiest/priciest beasts -think 3.0 Touareg and Audi RS, anything over £40k list price), initial showroom tax (which will be higher in the GTI) will be absorbed into the OTR price, so already considered. Polo GTI takes regular RON95 unleaded by recommendation, my Golf R is set up for thr premium stuff - I tried RON99 in the Polo and it made no difference in power, economy or response.

You've got a hefty list of extras there and if that adds up to seeing 15% of cost back after 3 years vs a no options SEL, that's a lot of money you'll never see again. £3k extras would likely be losing a cash buyer £80 a month(£95 on PCP). If you keep the car far longer than 3 years then extras become less relevant on a monthly basis, but going a bit mad on the monthlies can add 50% a month to a PCP payment. When a £20k car is costing £200 a month and adding £3k extras costs an additional £95 a month, it really doesn't look good value.

GTI+ list price is £23030, got mine with £1250 options (only wanted the Brescia wheels, camera and Nav were necessary evils to secure a queue jumping car spot - but Nav is an option that holds better than most, whether that continues with better connectivity is debateable). My car came in at £21240 after discount. I had not considered your £1000 VW deposit contribution.

ACC being standard on the GTI+ and not on the SEL means that your insurer will give no recognition to the fact you have it when calculating a premium - you could see a GTI+ cost around the same to insure as the SEL - especially as an experienced driver with a decent level of NCD. for me, the non + GTI without ACC as standard costs 10% more to insure, demonstrating the effect of the insurance company giving recognition to standard fitment of ACC.

Your extras not included on the GTI+ add up to a smidge more than the options I took, so like for like spec (to your spec), the GTI+ comes in at about a grand more with broker discount, will arguably be similar to insure, same to tax, cost the average 10k miles pa motorist £350pa more in fuel, but be worth about £3k more at resale time. You would be a grand better off with the GTI+.

Just looking to demonstrate that options are poor value for money generally vs what the car is losing you, and almost all the time it's cheaper to buy the dearer car with most of the spec you want as standard than buy the cheaper one and add spec.

Options are pretty subjective, and I usually try to avoid them, exceptions being metallic paint (for me, Red was the best GTI colour available, I'd have paid for reflex Silver, £350 for the Brescias made all the difference to exterior appearance as I'm not a fan of the Parkers). Park assist is a novelty for me, but someone with neck/back issues would love it and the camera, would only spec heated seats with leather - for me, cold cloth seats don't send a chill through my rear end. I have dual zone as standard on my Golf but don't use it as such - I find that the ambient air is warmed up through the system too much in "LO" - I like a cool car. All my.opinion on options, each and every one will have a different level of usefulness to different people