Difficult to start on hill without burning clutch

[silverhairs]

I don't really like doing stops when on a long journey, your on the motorway and you've passed all these lorries many miles back, you stop for the toilet or a cuppa, you get back on the motorway and your passing again, all them lorries you passed miles back.
I like watching on you-tube these people who live on narrow boats, and do video's while going along, and the slow pace of life. I've looked at the brochures, not worried about the price, but the amount of locks you have to go through in just one week, on some trips you can go through over 100 locks, to me that's not a holiday, that's more like hard work, and all that stopping and queuing up.

But I'm going off topic . Sorry

[Andy Beats]

I don't really like doing stops when on a long journey,

Fine, electric cars don't suit you right now.
But 300 miles non-stop is a very extreme example, and how often do you do it?
Again, no offence, but I've heard it all before from others worried/reluctant about the change to electric cars.
They use the one extreme journey they make a year and forget about the rest of the humdrum journeys they could easily use an electric car for.

Did I mention public charging is free in Scotland for now?
Literally free fuel.

[RUM4MO]

Hum, now we know who to blame for the North West 500 route being chocked with EVs with flat batteries?

[silverhairs]

Hi Andy,
Free charging . I wonder if that will stop if you get independence? And you loose the "Barnett Formula" hand out money

[RUM4MO]

Muppet alert?

[monkeyhanger]

Hi Andy,
Our next door neighbour's father has a Toyota Prius who was visiting his daughter, he just started to pull off when a couple of kids from the road, without looking stepped out in the road, because they didn't hear him coming, I saw what was happening and shouted at the kids, luckily he had seen them and had to put on his brakes rather hard. I've been out talking on the pavement with my back to the road and he's come past, and made me jump. It might be a good idea if they had sound generators built into the front bumper, to give pedestrians warning without being heard inside the car if you like the quietness of the electric motor.
I have two daughters and the other lives just past Barnstaple, so a trip from North Lincolnshire is a good 300 miles one way, and we do that about 6/7 times a year. While coming home, we get about half way (150 miles) on the M5 just before we turn onto the M42, I say to her "are you hungry or want the toilet", if she says "no" we do the journey in one jump.
Your right about people doing shorter journeys, If you just have it for shopping and things, and as a second car.

You didn't mention about the extra cost to your electricity bill? You never see anywhere the actual electric cost incurred by the owners by the manufacturers?

The Prius and the Leaf are fitted with an artificial noise generator that works up to around 20mph.
So the guy is either switching it off or they're deaf.
Your 300 miles in one go is an extreme, the huge majority of drivers won't do that - they'll have a break and top up the car while they have a cuppa.
But 300 mile range will come, of course it will, the tech is improvong all the time.
Charging costs for a 30KW Leaf are around £3.60 to do 110 miles (based on 13p per kWh)
No offence, but your queries are fine and normal of the ignorance (for want of a better word) surrounding electric cars.
But the fact still is they still suit loads of people right now, they're great.

110 miles for £3.60 does not equate to 1/10 the fuel cost it equates to the equivalent of about 167mpg, which is impressive enough, but that is best Summer performance on a brand new battery. In the Winter when you get more like 70 miles per charge, that drops to 107mpg - still impressive. Your costings are about 10% optimistic compared to Nissan's own webpages (They quote £4.20 per charge based on 14p/kW which is about £3.90 per charge @ 13p/kW, so more like 150mpg equivalent in Summer and 95mpg Winter.

Those kW charges are doubled on a public charge point you pay for, putting price per mile back in the realms of a 1.0TSI or 2.0TDI.

If you've got a 40 mile each way commute then in the Winter you're screwed for range. If you live in a flat or a house without a driveway then you're screwed for access to domestic charging. The additional cost of electric cars including rental or outright purchase of the battery vs a petrol or diesel car more than negates the fuel savings in almost all circumstances. While we're generating our electricity predominantly with oil and coal fired power stations they're not really any cleaner - the dirty crap is coming out of the power station instead of your tailpipe.

You may only do longer journeys than the range once a month or even a few times a year but when you do, what happens? Do you hire a petrol/diesel car (eating into your fuel savings) or look to take a 3 hour break mid journey and see your costs per mile double when those charging points cost you 30p per kW?

As a second car they're maybe a good idea, especially if you have Solar panels on your roof (those early feed in tariffs pay out a lot more than energy companies charge per kW - fleecing the tax payer). Those "free" domestic chargers also fleece the tax payer. My mate is a sparky and he took a job fitting these for the "free" charger scheme for which the quango company charged the government £1000 a pop. He can buy those chargers with a modest trade discount for about £130 add in an hour and a half's labour and the job should cost £200. That's a ridiculous nark-up at the tax payers expense.

If the number of electric cars tripled, the charging network would not cope. That's without the extra burden on the national grid which frequently gets close to capacity at peak times.

Fossil fuel is a long way off being obsoleted yet and the infrastructure isn't ready for mass EV ownership..

[silverhairs]

Muppet alert?

Muppet as much as you like, You may be a "bling bling diamond guy", but when the "Barnett" money stops, the "bling bling" days will be over

[RUM4MO]

I resisted initially expanding on what you wrote, but now I will slightly, I think that the Barnett formula covers most of the UK and it is not a "good will" payment being handed out to those North of the border.

As with all payments systems, money is collected in and money is paid out, in the unlikely event that Scotland votes for separation from UK, the money being collected in from Scotland would reduce dramatically so the stopping any Barnett adjustment would just balance that out.

These motoring forums are not for racists so give it a rest.

As it seems to annoy you a lot, it was not me that chose my "status" on this forum, it was given to me probably by the moderators - do you ever wonder what your "status" could end up as?

[silverhairs]

Very much doubt, I'll get past "silver"? In another forum I have over 5000 posts, and I'm just a "senior" member

But really, it wasn't me who started name calling

[RUM4MO]

I'm not quite sure about that though, I only brought out the "m" word after reading an offensive comment.

I'm also on other forums and senior etc status, I'm not complaining about my status on this forum as it would have been given to me in a friendly manner so it does not bother me.

I might have in the past suggested that Andy Beats had a "regional" poor arm length to pocket length ratio, but normally people can gently attack each other jokingly region by region without reverting to what leans towards racism.

Is this going to stop now and return to topic?

[Dark_cze]

I might have in the past suggested that Andy Beats had a "regional" poor arm length to pocket length ratio, but normally people can gently attack each other jokingly region by region without reverting to what leans towards racism.

Is this going to stop now and return to topic?

Hiw about ban him or put him in ignore like many of us did

[RUM4MO]

No, I'm trying to be kind?

[Muldoon]

I have noticed a few problems doing hill starts smoothly after a month with the Polo. Went over to the Peak District last week, some tricky junctions on hills and corners needing a quick get away proved tricky - getting enough revs but not too many so the front wheels spin. I didn't have this before on my Fiesta (4 cylinder 1.25 engine) which was far easier to judge the power and biting point. I think it may be the 1.0 engine doesn't have much power off the line coupled with a clutch that has a high biting point. Also you don't like to rev the engine as it sounds coarse and noisy. On top of this the 'hill hold' function comes in unexpectedly now and again which causes a surprise when you release the handbrake and it still holds for a fraction - puts you off when trying to hold it on the biting point to check traffic and pull out from a tight junction. Not ideal.

[Andy Beats]

110 miles for £3.60 does not equate to 1/10 the fuel cost it equates to the equivalent of about 167mpg, which is impressive enough, but that is best Summer performance on a brand new battery. In the Winter when you get more like 70 miles per charge, that drops to 107mpg - still impressive. Your costings are about 10% optimistic compared to Nissan's own webpages (They quote £4.20 per charge based on 14p/kW which is about £3.90 per charge @ 13p/kW, so more like 150mpg equivalent in Summer and 95mpg Winter.

Those kW charges are doubled on a public charge point you pay for, putting price per mile back in the realms of a 1.0TSI or 2.0TDI.

If you've got a 40 mile each way commute then in the Winter you're screwed for range. If you live in a flat or a house without a driveway then you're screwed for access to domestic charging. The additional cost of electric cars including rental or outright purchase of the battery vs a petrol or diesel car more than negates the fuel savings in almost all circumstances. While we're generating our electricity predominantly with oil and coal fired power stations they're not really any cleaner - the dirty crap is coming out of the power station instead of your tailpipe.

You may only do longer journeys than the range once a month or even a few times a year but when you do, what happens? Do you hire a petrol/diesel car (eating into your fuel savings) or look to take a 3 hour break mid journey and see your costs per mile double when those charging points cost you 30p per kW?

As a second car they're maybe a good idea, especially if you have Solar panels on your roof (those early feed in tariffs pay out a lot more than energy companies charge per kW - fleecing the tax payer). Those "free" domestic chargers also fleece the tax payer. My mate is a sparky and he took a job fitting these for the "free" charger scheme for which the quango company charged the government £1000 a pop. He can buy those chargers with a modest trade discount for about £130 add in an hour and a half's labour and the job should cost £200. That's a ridiculous nark-up at the tax payers expense.

If the number of electric cars tripled, the charging network would not cope. That's without the extra burden on the national grid which frequently gets close to capacity at peak times.

Fossil fuel is a long way off being obsoleted yet and the infrastructure isn't ready for mass EV ownership..

You're not "screwed for range" for a 40 mile commute in the winter - quite a few EVs will do that comfortably - Leaf 30 / Leaf 40 / Kona etc.
Some of your other points are more valid, but your point about range in winter is far out it makes me think you need to update your research.

[Andy Beats]

Getting back to the clutch/hill start problem.
I don't often have a car full of adults, but I did this weekend and had to do a hill start.
It wasn't easy or pleasant.
VW have REALLY made a mess of the gearing on this car, the problem is first is probably closer to second on other cars.
Anyone would have a problem trying to hill-start a car in second gear, and that's exactly what the Polo is like.
The other gears follow the same pattern of being too high, I'm finding myself driving along in third at 40-50mph because fourth is close to labouring.
That's not sensible gearing in a car with such a small engine.