DSG and ‘D’ mode

[Martin-GTi]

I collected my car 10 days ago. I’ll state from the beginning that I am new to DSG gearboxes (always driven manual cars) and am breaking in the engine, so have avoided full throttle and always ensure the oil temp is warm before even thinking of moderate acceleration.

I’ve been using the normal ‘D’ gearbox setting and am trying to work out why it changes up at such low RPM. The car wants to change into fourth and fifth at well under 2K RPM, even on a moderate incline with what I feel is a throttle position that says “I want acceleration, not economy”. It feels like the engine is often labouring. I appreciate the normal driving mode is set for economy, but does this change as mileage increases (only done 400 miles so far)? Does the software learn / adapt according to driving style? Perhaps I’m babying the car too much during the break-in?

Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Otherwise I’ll need to permanently run it in ‘S’ after a few more miles.

[monkeyhanger]

I collected my car 10 days ago. I’ll state from the beginning that I am new to DSG gearboxes (always driven manual cars) and am breaking in the engine, so have avoided full throttle and always ensure the oil temp is warm before even thinking of moderate acceleration.

I’ve been using the normal ‘D’ gearbox setting and am trying to work out why it changes up at such low RPM. The car wants to change into fourth and fifth at well under 2K RPM, even on a moderate incline with what I feel is a throttle position that says “I want acceleration, not economy”. It feels like the engine is often labouring. I appreciate the normal driving mode is set for economy, but does this change as mileage increases (only done 400 miles so far)? Does the software learn / adapt according to driving style? Perhaps I’m babying the car too much during the break-in?

Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Otherwise I’ll need to permanently run it in ‘S’ after a few more miles.

On a slight incline from work for about 1/3 of a mile, mine seems to like sitting in 3rd at 35-40mph.

I leave mine in Sport mode on the engine, but D more on the box rather than screaming it in S mode all the time.

Unless you give the car the impression you want to push on with a heavy throttle at any given time, it will be trying to stick you in a high gear for economy. S leaves you in a gear lower than D would, in all throttle situations - that'll hit your economy hard. When running in, I would put my foot down a bit (when the oil's warm) to avoid the car trying to labour at 1200-1500rpmat all times - lots of gear changes and varying throttle input is good for running in.

[Andy Beats]

If you're using a low throttle position, the car will think you want to 'pootle along' and will change up early.
If you used more throttle, it would let it rev a bit higher.
I never liked S mode in my DSG A3, it was just way too fussy and buzzy.
I used D or manual mode, S was ignored.

[hornedav]

I'm with you Martin-GTi.

I've owned a 2018 Polo Beats, DSG 1 litre, since August 2018 - and I too feel the DSG makes odd/inconsistent gear choices in D mode. It feels like the engine is often labouring - when on an incline, or pottering along at 70kms per hour on a flat road. I find myself paddle-shifting down for more appropriate gears - depending upon the terrain. A little annoying, and inconsistent.

I'm hoping there is a software update to improve vehicle responses - for when my vehicle is in for its first service. The Polo is currently at 10,000 Kms.

[Rosinfield]

Compared to the DSG7's in my previous three cars, I like the DSG6 a lot more. All three times I had the DSG software adapted (shift later in D, earlier in S. Now, with the DSG6 in the GTI, I don't feel any need to do it. But then again, I wonder if maybe other software was already installed. When I drive in a gear lower than 6 and let the ACC accelerate, it goes to 6 at 79 km/u. Which is substantial later then in the dsg7 where it went to 7 at 60 km/h.

[phillos]

Compared to the DSG7's in my previous three cars, I like the DSG6 a lot more. All three times I had the DSG software adapted (shift later in D, earlier in S. Now, with the DSG6 in the GTI, I don't feel any need to do it. But then again, I wonder if maybe other software was already installed. When I drive in a gear lower than 6 and let the ACC accelerate, it goes to 6 at 79 km/u. Which is substantial later then in the dsg7 where it went to 7 at 60 km/h.

Gear ratios of the DSG7 and DSG6 are completely different. So its not weird at all that they are not in the same gear at a given speed.

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

[monkeyhanger]

Compared to the DSG7's in my previous three cars, I like the DSG6 a lot more. All three times I had the DSG software adapted (shift later in D, earlier in S. Now, with the DSG6 in the GTI, I don't feel any need to do it. But then again, I wonder if maybe other software was already installed. When I drive in a gear lower than 6 and let the ACC accelerate, it goes to 6 at 79 km/u. Which is substantial later then in the dsg7 where it went to 7 at 60 km/h.

Gear ratios of the DSG7 and DSG6 are completely different. So its not weird at all that they are not in the same gear at a given speed.

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

The 6 speed DSG "DQ250" that the Polo GTI uses has wet clutches. The DQ200 7 speed clutch used in low output VAG models like the 1.0TSI units seen on the rest of the Polo range has dry clutches.

There are a number of wet clutch 7 speed gearboxes rated for higher outputs, the most common being the DQ380, as seen on the standard/PP output MK7.5 Golf GTI.

The wet clutch DQ250 and DQ380 are very similar, except for the extra gear, and those 7 gears on the DQ380 having different (lower like-for-like) ratios to the 6 speed DQ250, and the mechatronics unit set up for different thresholds of gear changes, but hardware working in much the same way - so not completely different.

[phillos]

Compared to the DSG7's in my previous three cars, I like the DSG6 a lot more. All three times I had the DSG software adapted (shift later in D, earlier in S. Now, with the DSG6 in the GTI, I don't feel any need to do it. But then again, I wonder if maybe other software was already installed. When I drive in a gear lower than 6 and let the ACC accelerate, it goes to 6 at 79 km/u. Which is substantial later then in the dsg7 where it went to 7 at 60 km/h.

Gear ratios of the DSG7 and DSG6 are completely different. So its not weird at all that they are not in the same gear at a given speed.

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

The 6 speed DSG "DQ250" that the Polo GTI uses has wet clutches. The DQ200 7 speed clutch used in low output VAG models like the 1.0TSI units seen on the rest of the Polo range has dry clutches.

There are a number of wet clutch 7 speed gearboxes rated for higher outputs, the most common being the DQ380, as seen on the standard/PP output MK7.5 Golf GTI.

The wet clutch DQ250 and DQ380 are very similar, except for the extra gear, and those 7 gears on the DQ380 having different (lower like-for-like) ratios to the 6 speed DQ250, and the mechatronics unit set up for different thresholds of gear changes, but hardware working in much the same way - so not completely different.

Being primarily a Polo forum, when Rosinfield referred to his previous cars with DSG7s I assumed he meant DQ200s. Thus my comment on the DQ250 not being comparable to the DQ200.

You forgot the DQ351 (4WD) and DQ500

[monkeyhanger]

Gear ratios of the DSG7 and DSG6 are completely different. So its not weird at all that they are not in the same gear at a given speed.

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

The 6 speed DSG "DQ250" that the Polo GTI uses has wet clutches. The DQ200 7 speed clutch used in low output VAG models like the 1.0TSI units seen on the rest of the Polo range has dry clutches.

There are a number of wet clutch 7 speed gearboxes rated for higher outputs, the most common being the DQ380, as seen on the standard/PP output MK7.5 Golf GTI.

The wet clutch DQ250 and DQ380 are very similar, except for the extra gear, and those 7 gears on the DQ380 having different (lower like-for-like) ratios to the 6 speed DQ250, and the mechatronics unit set up for different thresholds of gear changes, but hardware working in much the same way - so not completely different.

Being primarily a Polo forum, when Rosinfield referred to his previous cars with DSG7s I assumed he meant DQ200s. Thus my comment on the DQ250 not being comparable to the DQ200.

You forgot the DQ351 (4WD) and DQ500

Your comment

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

reads like you're saying the 7 speed has wet clutches and the 6 speed does not, hence my inner pedant needing to correct.

I didn't forget the other variants, I alluded to there being more (there are 5 or 6, mainly differences in torque handling capability).

Most people who've had a MK7 DSG Golf GTI/R with the 6 speed wet box then got a 7 speed MK7.5 GTI/R tend to prefer the 7 speed wet box - slightly better 0-62mph performance from the lower ratios and tall 7th gear to improve motorway fuel economy. The Polo GTI has a pretty tall 6th gear in the DSG box - almost as tall as a Golf GTD (Polo GTI 6th @ 80mph = 2400rpm, Golf GTD 6th @ 80mph = 2200rpm, Golf R 6th (pre-facelift) @80mph = 3100rpm.

[phillos]

The 6 speed DSG "DQ250" that the Polo GTI uses has wet clutches. The DQ200 7 speed clutch used in low output VAG models like the 1.0TSI units seen on the rest of the Polo range has dry clutches.

There are a number of wet clutch 7 speed gearboxes rated for higher outputs, the most common being the DQ380, as seen on the standard/PP output MK7.5 Golf GTI.

The wet clutch DQ250 and DQ380 are very similar, except for the extra gear, and those 7 gears on the DQ380 having different (lower like-for-like) ratios to the 6 speed DQ250, and the mechatronics unit set up for different thresholds of gear changes, but hardware working in much the same way - so not completely different.

Being primarily a Polo forum, when Rosinfield referred to his previous cars with DSG7s I assumed he meant DQ200s. Thus my comment on the DQ250 not being comparable to the DQ200.

You forgot the DQ351 (4WD) and DQ500

Your comment

The DSG7 is not just a DSG6 with an extra gear. Its a completely different gearbox with wet clutches, etc. as I'm sure you know.

reads like you're saying the 7 speed has wet clutches and the 6 speed does not, hence my inner pedant needing to correct.

I didn't forget the other variants, I alluded to there being more (there are 5 or 6, mainly differences in torque handling capability).

Most people who've had a MK7 DSG Golf GTI/R with the 6 speed wet box then got a 7 speed MK7.5 GTI/R tend to prefer the 7 speed wet box - slightly better 0-62mph performance from the lower ratios and tall 7th gear to improve motorway fuel economy. The Polo GTI has a pretty tall 6th gear in the DSG box - almost as tall as a Golf GTD (Polo GTI 6th @ 80mph = 2400rpm, Golf GTD 6th @ 80mph = 2200rpm, Golf R 6th (pre-facelift) @80mph = 3100rpm.

You’re right I phrased that wrong. Obviously should have been swapped. So we’re good then? I quite like the tall gearing. Nice and quiet on the highway

[monkeyhanger]

I quite like the tall gearing. Nice and quiet on the highway

It's a double edged sword for me - at motorway/highways speeds it gives great economy (47mpg on my Polo GTI+ vs 35mpg in my Golf R, on a 100+ mile journey doing 80mph). It does you no favours in urban driving though. For most of the commute, on moderately busy roads, my Polo is no more economical than the Golf R was, as it is happy to be sat in 5th at 30mph, whereas the Polo seems to be hunting between 4th and 5th at about 34mph with low throttle, and between 5th and 6th at about 43mph.

If I did most of my miles on the motorway i'd love the tall gearing. The Polo seems far more sensitive to congestion too - my commute can be anywhere between 30 and 37mpg for the same route, depndent on traffic volume. On the R it was consistently 35mpg, and the R didn't see such a dive in mpg when you briefly put your foot down for some hard acceleration.

[Rosinfield]

Yes I'm fully aware of the differences between these gearboxes. That's exactly why I wanted to share my experience that I feel no direct need to get the DSG software adapted, as I definitely felt with my previous DSG7's. In other words, the DSG6 surprises me in a positive way. Just wondered whether others feel the same.