Front wiper arms removal - rainwater leak drivers footwell

[Mabbi]

I have another issue with my polo 1.2 sel.

Over new year I have found a rainwater leak in the drivers footwell. Carpets and insulation are soaking wet.
I have pulled back the carpet and found a water leak through the bulkhead. Definitely not door seal or window.
Pouring water into the scutle panel (plastic trim below the windscreen) wait a few seconds and it starts seeping through the bulkhead
below the accelerator pedal.

I have had the front wheel off and removed the wheel arch liner. The drainage channels and holes are clear. So its not that.

I am pretty sure there is a seal missing or damaged under the scuttle panel. My problem is in order to gain access,
you have to remove the wiper arms. I have prised of the plastic cap and removed the 13mm nut but they are not budging at all

I have a wiper arm removal tool on order but my question is
do the wiper arms have to be in certain position in order to remove?

There are some videos online of how to remove them but for earlier polos and I am wondering if VW have changed the design.

If anyone has experience of removing the wiper arms on a 6r or 6c could they let me know. I don't want to force them and ending up causing more damage.

Thanks

[SRGTD]

This may help;

https://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen ... iper_arms/

[Mabbi]

Thanks,
I have ordered a similar tool and I am waiting for delivery.

It is just when I tried to remove them by hand they would not budge at all.
It made me think that maybe there was a notch or something in the wiper motor spindle that had
to be aligned on the 6r.

When the tool arrives I'll try again with the wipers in the service position.

[veteran]

I've always suspected that the plenum chamber below the windscreen that houses the windscreen-wiper motor and which provides also a convenient runaway path for rainwater is not fully sealed with respect to the interior of the vehicle, though whether this might be by design or by mistake is anyone's guess. This would affect several models - the 1.2 Match, the SEL, and so forth. So, either you've got a 'plenum rusted-through' problem, or a grommet or seal of some sort, in or around the plenum, has deteriorated or has become damaged somehow.

About a year ago I spent some considerable time trying rather unsuccessfully to access the wiper motor, but in so doing I thought I could see, in the darkness of that plenum, what looked like an unused, or unplugged, hole passing through the bulkhead to the interior. It was at the back, to one side of the wiper motor. In the end I concluded it was probably just a trick of the light, but your report has now re-opened that question.

To explore the possibility of a hole going through to the interior requires that that perforated plenum panel (scuttle-tray) be removed. I found that whilst you can easily remove the thick bonnet rubber that runs along its front edge and you can then prise up the panel, to completely remove the panel requires the top edge of it to be released from some hidden push-fit fasteners, just below the line of the windscreen-wipers. There are also rumours that the top edge, ie where it meets with the windscreen, has some glue underneath it as well, sealing that top edge and preventing rainwater creeping behind that edge and dribbling down the back of the plenum, ie. down the bulkhead. That glue (if it exists) would be non-setting, I think, and could be softened by applying some heat from a heatgun or similar. Trouble is, you've got to be oh so careful with the glass; if you crack it, you're in for a completely new windscreen! I myself never progressed beyond just prising up the front edge of the plenum panel.

And yes, you need to get the wipers out of the way, so you need to temporarily remove them. They are not so much a splined fit on to the spindle but more of a friction fit. A certain knack's required to pop them off, once the nuts are off. You could try placing a piece of wood between the spindle assembly and the bottom of the windscreen and then prising with a large screwdriver. If you're lucky, that'll do the trick. However, you need to very careful doing that, as one slip and you could end up badly marking or busting the windscreen. And you'll find it that much easier, anyway, to do it with wipers in the service position and the bonnet down, wiper arm pulled away from the windscreen. I'd highly recommend you drape a piece of thick cloth over the windscreen, to protect the screen should the arm ever spring back uncontrollably on to it and damaging the glass. Do note, on the windscreen, where the wiper blades normally sit, in the rest position, as I can assure you that you won't want to have to keep experimenting with the angular positions on the spindles when putting the wipers back on.

After messing around with wood and screwdrivers with only partial success, I invested in a purpose-made wiper puller. Draper make one called the WST6 but I found that one a bit too bulky for the job (maybe handier for removing the rear wiper?); the tool tends to end up hard against the bonnet edge. I found that a better one was the Asta A-746. But you still have to use it with care to prevent marking the surround/paintwork. You can help keep the puller's central bolt from wandering as you screw the thing down on to the spindle by just loosely refitting the spindle nut you've just taken off. With any sort of ww puller, you'll probably find, as I did, that it'll take just a miniscule amount of pressure to be applied with the tool and the wiper arm will then suddenly pop off. Apply some grease to the respective parts to make the job easier the next time.

Yes, if you can somehow release the hidden clips of the upper part of the plenum cover, you may then be able to prop open more fully the cover with a fat wooden wedge. You'd then be able to search for the cause of the leak, though I'm pretty sure you'll still need a powerful torch to do so. The hidden clips are quite tough to prise away, I gather. On YouTube, I've seen a technician doing it by starting to prise up the cover at one of the ends where they meet the vehicle's wings. Once you can start the unclipping, completing it tends to then be straightforward.

Anyway, good luck with this investigation. I'll be very interested to learn what you find.

[Mabbi]

Thanks Veteran for your reply,
I have ordered a windscreen wiper removal tool and will wait for it to arrive before I make another attempt
as I don't want to risk damaging the windscreen.

It should arrive in the next week or so. I will post back when
I have had another go. I just hope it doesn't rain too much in the meantime.

[L162LZ]

Is there any update on this and any more guidance on removing the cover. The wiper mechanism on my daughters 2010 6r Polo has become quite slow so assume its quite siezed and needs some copper grease applying.
I have ordered a replacement motor/mechansim from eBay that I'll "renovate" beforehand (in case the existing one isnt repairable) and a puller tool to get the arms off. I tried unsuccessfully to get the arms off a few days ago and think I've damaged either the nut or spindle on one side in the process
But I cant see any threads on how to successfully remove the Plenum cover?

[veteran]

L16,

There have been rumours that the windscreen side of the plenum cover is adhesively bonded to the bodyshell and some application of heat from a heatgun has to be used. This would support the idea that there needs to be a watertight seal between the bottom of the windscreen and the bodyshell and plenum chamber, so that water (or moisture of any sort) cannot seap through and finds its way into the cabin. Maybe once upon a time the cover was bonded on, but my EasyManual on the 6R/6C Polos (2010 - 2017) neither shows nor mentions any bonding or adhesive used with the plenum cover. Instead, a diagram shows a series of male pushfit clips that are built into the back of the cover along that length. These clips snap into female receptacles in the bodyshell. They are each a tight fit and look like they have to be carefully released one by one.

Getting a hold on a top corner of the cover, to start the release process, is rather difficult, due to the top of the vehicle's front wing being in the way, but a Youtube video I've seen has shown the release being achieved by use of a thick cable-tie. You make a loop with the cable-tie and then attach the loop on to the just-out-of-sight cover-end. It's then a matter of pulling up and away with a good deal of force. It's probably easier to start at the non-wiper end. Care should be exercised in not putting any undue pressure on the bottom of the windscreen, as you could easily crack it. Above all, avoid using any hard tools as levers. From the video, it seems that once you can release the first clip and can bend the end of the cover up, the second and subsequent clips can then be released by just forceful hand-pulling. Replacing the cover is the reverse of this, just pushing down over the clips, all along that length.

I've never done this job myself, at least not to completion. Other work has taken precedence, and I must say the bonding business had hitherto put me off. But one day soon I'll have a go, as I too have my suspicions that, within the plenum chamber's back wall, just to the left of where the wiper motor sits (on a RHD Polo), there's a hole through to the cabin, or a badly-sealing bolt or grommet. It's still only a theory of mine, though. Earlier, I was unable to remove the plenum cover, to make a closer inspection of what looked like a through-hole in that back wall, but I've since realised that the cover is apparently held on, along the back, by the above-described clips, and that the cover can therefore be removed by a suitable releasing technique, in this case with the initial use of a humble cable-tie. If there is indeed a non-sealed hole there, at the back of the plenum chamber, I can well understand VW not bothering too much with it, as I think they probably assume that any water that gets into the plenum chamber will never reach the level where the hole is.

A further thought: now that the warmer weather is with us, it may be that much easier to pull away and bend that back length of the cover without cracking it. Indeed, I'm beginning to wonder whether the prior talk of using a heatgun along that length might have been simply to soften the cover and its clips underneath, rather than to loosen any adhesive.

[L162LZ]

Thanks, I'd seen this post, but was wondering if someone had successfully removed it. At the moment I cant even get to that point to try.
Purchased what i thought to be a sturdy puller to removed the wiper arms. Things are so seized that when i tightened it the puller broke before they came lose. This was dispite soaking them in release oil for a few days beforehand
Waiting for replacement puller and will then try again.

Could try heating them but assume this will wreck the black coating on the arms

[L162LZ]

Thanks, I'd seen this post, but was wondering if someone had successfully removed it. At the moment I cant even get to that point to try. Purchased what i thought to be a sturdy puller to removed the wiper arms. Things are so sieved that when i tighghtened it the puller broke before they came lose. This was dispite soaking them in release oil for a few days beforehand
Waiting for replacement puller and will then try again. Could try heating them but assume this will wrech the black coating on the arms

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[veteran]

When removing windscreen wipers "there are pullers, and there are pullers", as they say. That one you bought and tried clearly wasn't up to the job, being made of plastic. I could recommend you one, or even two, particular w-w pullers that may be still available online, but you've obviously now ordered a straight replacement for the one you bought, so it'd be a waste of my time.

I remember finding that, due to the closeness of the wiper spindle to the plenum cover around it, one of the two w-w pullers I had couldn't fit and align squarely over the spindle, rendering it virtually useless. That particular puller worked fine on the rear wiper, however. Even the other puller I had was a bit of a fiddle to use on the front ones. Incidentally, when you go to use your puller, drape a thick cloth over the windscreen, so that when the arm finally pops off it doesn't fling itself against the windscreen and scratch it. Before pulling off each arm, mark the position of the wiper rubber on the windscreen, so that later you can put the wiper arm back in the self same position (use a bit of sticky tape, say). Don't guess it; you'll not want to keep removing the wiper arm for repositioning.

If you eventually reach the point where you've removed the plenum cover, I would not recommend you using copper grease on the wiper motor parts. In time, copper grease has a habit of causing seizure of moving joints, believe it or not. I know that years ago it was de rigeur to use copper grease on cars but, as a so-called lubricant, it's now fallen out of favour with many car mechanics, particularly in its use on brake parts (such as the sliders on calipers; there are now better greases available to use on brake parts), as it tends to drag and eventually cause seizure. Instead, on the joints of the wiper motor's pantographic arms I'd suggest you clean off any existing grease there and then just use something like Castrol LM grease or some other mineral-based thick grease. Even a dab of clean engine oil wouldn't go amiss. Pay attention also to the output spindle of the wiper motor itself.

[L162LZ]

Hi Thanks for reply. Original puller certainly wasnt plastic! The centre part was a cast metal part and that was what failed, looked quite granular. I was actually tightening it a lot in an attenpt to get the arm off. Have had problems years ago with my old Golfs and Scirroco arms but never had them this seized on previously!!
I haven't actually ordered a direct replacement but one that is hopefully stronger and more substantial
Replacement wiper motor mechanism has arrived this morning so I've stripped that down and cleaned /greased the spindles, so it at least this is ready for when I can eventually get to remove the existing one!!
Have just used a think normal grease as you suggested and thenaks for the tip about using a thick cloth on the windscreen

[L162LZ]

Hi Thanks for reply. Original puller certainly wasnt plastic! The centre part was a cast metal part and that was what failed, looked quite granular. I was actually tightening it a lot in an attenpt to get the arm off. Have had problems years ago with my old Golfs and Scirroco arms but never had them this seized on previously!!
I haven't actually ordered a direct replacement but one that is hopefully stronger and more substantial
Replacement wiper motor mechanism has arrived this morning so I've stripped that down and cleaned /greased the spindles and motor, tested witha 12v battery and runs very smoothly. So it at least this is ready for when I can eventually get to remove the existing one!!
Have just used a think normal grease as you suggested and thanks for the tip about using a thick cloth on the windscreen

[RUM4MO]

I bought a windscreen wiper arm removal tool that looks a lot like that one, now, the question might be, is that one just a poor copy of the one I bought many years ago - a possibility, or did I never use that design - maybe having misplaced it, and had to use a small slim basic bearing puller type of puller?

One or the other!

Edit:- wait a minute, the packaging describes it as an oil filter wrench - sounds like someone has been making up cheap copies and packaging them with the wrong description. These broken parts really do look a bit granular - okay they need to be made out of hard stuff, but stuff that is bother strong and hard! I'd be getting my money back or at least a new one, if for no other reason than make the scanky toad that was selling them waste a bit of his money!!

Another Edit:- I've just been out to my garage to check my version of that tool, the part that brake is made from a silver finished bit of metal, so maybe slightly stronger, but mine looks a good as new, so maybe as I said above, I did not use it when I corrected the alignment of the wiper arms on my wife's Polo when it was brand new back in August 2015.

Definitely last Edit:- ah, while looking about it does look like your version came from China, there is quite a range of prices for these things out there and so accordingly varying qualities! It seems that I was lucky enough to buy mine before most of the Chinese copies appeared.

[L162LZ]

Thanks, have a full refund for the crappy one at least. just disappointing as now have to wait for the hopefully stronger one to arrive after Easter.
Just hope the weather stays ok for my daughter driving as her wipers are going very slow currently (serves me right for buying cheapo one first time i suppose) to arrive.
These arms are seriously stuck on!! i was turning it with a pair of mole grips to get it to turn. worried i might have to cut the arms to get them off and replace them too if the next puller doesnt do the job

[veteran]

L16,

When you finally get the arms removed you'll be able to see that the tops of the spindles are very finely splined. This is primarily why it's difficult to pull them off without some sort of specialised tool. Sometimes, however, a Polo owner can be lucky and find that putting the wipers to the parked position, removing the spindle cap and nut, moving the arm to its stable position away from the windscreen, and then simply wiggling/pulling on the arm just with your hands, the arm will suddenly pop off. But most times instead a puller tool is needed. BTW, a couple more tips: (i) loosely refit the spindle nut before you fit and use the puller, as the nut will help keep the puller from slipping off the spindle, (ii) grease the tops of the spindles before you refit the wiper arms.

Just to clarify, I thought that the seizure to which you've been referring was of the pantographic arms within the plenum chamber but I think I may have misunderstood you and that you're instead saying that it's the two spindle drives themselves, of the wiper arms, that are seized. Either way, all these moving parts should be cleaned up with, say, some Plus-Gas, then some thick grease of the kind I've mentioned applied.

Just below where the wiper spindles sit there's a ridge of the plenum cover that extends over the full width of the engine compartment. Some wiper pullers will, as I've said, not centralise properly over the spindle, and at the same time will foul against that ridge. So, careful choice of a suitable puller is paramount.

Edit: the two pullers I had were the Draper 71462 wiper arm puller, and the Asta A-746 windscreen wiper removal tool. I think the Draper is still around and can be got for about £18, maybe less on eBay. The Asta tool is unfortunately unavailable at present but I think I paid around £23 for that. Whilst the Draper refused to centralise over the spindle, the Asta, although a bit fiddly to attach, did the job nicely.