VW Update Plans

[OomStu_ZA]

Read this article today and although not Polo specific it gives us an idea where VW are headed:

https://www.cars.co.za/motoring_news/vw ... -on/50828/

OTA updates, grand plans usually fail but hope they get it right. With VW taking the EV route I wonder if we will see another gen of the Polo.

[Andy Beats]

I can't open the article at work.
I would say 'no' to another Polo though, I would guess an ID2 is imminent and will make the Polo redundant.
The ID3 and ID4 are out and getting great reviews.
The E-Up is getting long in the tooth, so an ID1 will surely replace that.
I'm just glad I PCP'd my Gti, as I'm pretty sure values for these will take a huge hit.
At least I can hand it back and walk away.

[SRGTD]

I’ve read that the launch date of VW’s Polo sized ID.2 is due in 2-3 years time. That suggests to me that when the current Polo has received its facelift, then that might be the end of the line.

The facelift model of the Polo will probably have a lifespan of 3-4 years which means if there is to be an all new next generation Polo after that, then it would be launched around 2024 / 2025. However, with VW being firmly committed to EV’s, I can’t really see them committing large sums of capital to developing an all new Polo model range with ICE engines, and an electric Polo seems unlikely as by that time, VW will have a Polo sized all electric ID.2 in production.

What does that mean for the values of ICE cars? Not everyone will be able to afford a new EV. Also, if the infrastructure isn’t in place to support EV ownership, then there’ll still be a demand for ICE cars for some years to come. So I wouldn’t expect to see a sudden slump in used car values, as EV’s won’t be for everyone in short-medium term.

As for OTA updates; I believe the new Golf is able to receive certain update OTA, so the technology is already being incorporated into current VW vehicles.

[Andy Beats]

Not everyone will be able to afford a new EV.

Everyone buying a new car should be able to afford a new EV.
Lease/PCP prices are already comparable, especially once fuel costs taken into account, and more competition will just mean better prices.
There's not even much of an argument in the used market, anyone who can afford £5k can get into an EV right now.
It's only the really cheap end of the market that isn't open to EV owners just now (sub £5k buyers).

[SRGTD]

Not everyone will be able to afford a new EV.

Everyone buying a new car should be able to afford a new EV.
Lease/PCP prices are already comparable, especially once fuel costs taken into account, and more competition will just mean better prices.
There's not even much of an argument in the used market, anyone who can afford £5k can get into an EV right now.
It's only the really cheap end of the market that isn't open to EV owners just now (sub £5k buyers).

Maybe not everyone will want one, especially if they don’t have ready access to charging facilities. People living in terraced houses or flats / apartments with no off road parking /charging capabilities may well consider an inability to be able to recharge an EV as a barrier to getting one, at least in the short term. So IMHO it won’t just be the really cheap end of the market that may not be open to EV ownership, unless there’s significant investment into the infrastructure needed to support mass EV ownership.

[Andy Beats]

Maybe not everyone will want one, especially if they don’t have ready access to charging facilities. People living in terraced houses or flats / apartments with no off road parking /charging capabilities may well consider an inability to be able to recharge an EV as a barrier to getting one, at least in the short term. So IMHO it won’t just be the really cheap end of the market that may not be open to EV ownership, unless there’s significant investment into the infrastructure needed to support mass EV ownership.

It's a peculiar mindset people have about EVs, that they must be able to charge at home.
Why?
They don't expect to fill up with diesel or petrol at home, so why expect to recharge at home?
Yes it's nice, but it's not essential.
Many EV owners already recharge elsewhere and then go about their business perfectly well.
I can recharge at home, but often simply didn't need to as I recharged wherever I was (town etc)
And as more ICE fuel stations turn into electric stations, it'll become even easier.

[SRGTD]

With increasing EV ownership, if there isn’t a fairly significant increase in the availability of public charging points, then home charging will be an important factor for many, unless people are happy driving around searching for an available public charging point - and most won’t be.

Agree, people aren’t able to refuel an ICE car at home, but ‘refuelling’ time and refuelling convenience are factors that can’t be ignored. Filling up with petrol or diesel; takes less than 5 minutes at a filling station (of which there are plenty) so isn’t an inconvenience for the vast majority of ICE car owners. Charging an EV takes what? I’d hazard a guess that it currently takes quite a bit longer than it does to refuel an ICE car. Not an issue if you’re able to charge at home, but it will be an issue and a potentially major inconvenience for many if they don’t or can’t have home charging facilities and there are insufficient public rapid charging points in their local area, especially if increasing EV ownership means demand for public charging facilities outstrip supply in the short to medium term.

Granted, it’ll become less of an issue as charging and battery technology and the charging infrastructure and technology improves (will there also be roadside wireless charging technology at some point for those who park on the street?), but we’re not in that position yet - at least not in my part of the UK - and IMHO won’t be for some time. So, for the time being, I’ll not be making the change to EV, and I dare say many others won’t either. I will be changing to EV though when I feel the time’s right for me to do so.

[OomStu_ZA]

The ID3 and ID4 are out and getting great reviews.

For build quality / design perhaps but two things stand out from most of the reviews I've seen:
1) Software is slow and sluggish to respond, often hangs.
2) No buttons anywhere meaning that changing something as simple as the tempreture takes a bit of effort while distracting the driver in the process.

[Andy Beats]

With increasing EV ownership, if there isn’t a fairly significant increase in the availability of public charging points, then home charging will be an important factor for many, unless people are happy driving around searching for an available public charging point - and most won’t be.

Agree, people aren’t able to refuel an ICE car at home, but ‘refuelling’ time and refuelling convenience are factors that can’t be ignored. Filling up with petrol or diesel; takes less than 5 minutes at a filling station (of which there are plenty) so isn’t an inconvenience for the vast majority of ICE car owners. Charging an EV takes what? I’d hazard a guess that it currently takes quite a bit longer than it does to refuel an ICE car. Not an issue if you’re able to charge at home, but it will be an issue and a potentially major inconvenience for many if they don’t or can’t have home charging facilities and there are insufficient public rapid charging points in their local area, especially if increasing EV ownership means demand for public charging facilities outstrip supply in the short to medium term.

Granted, it’ll become less of an issue as charging and battery technology and the charging infrastructure and technology improves (will there also be roadside wireless charging technology at some point for those who park on the street?), but we’re not in that position yet - at least not in my part of the UK - and IMHO won’t be for some time. So, for the time being, I’ll not be making the change to EV, and I dare say many others won’t either. I will be changing to EV though when I feel the time’s right for me to do so.

Of course it takes longer, but there's the advantage of you not having to be there.
Quickly plugging in an EV and leaving it beats the hell out of standing in the cold waiting for an ICE to refill, then realising you've dragged diesel in on your feet and your car now stinks.
Where I live the charging infrastructure easily outstrips demand, very easy to find a charger.
Streetside charging will come, some cities already have it (I've used it in Dundee).

[SRGTD]

EV charging infrastructure in my part of the UK is currently poor to put it mildly. Where I live has a population of circa 15,000. There are no public EV charging points; nearest is around seven miles away. I travelled to get my Covid vaccination today (around a 16 mile journey) to a small town with a population of circa 5,500 and they have four public charging points in a supermarket car park. There were no towns / villages along that 16 mile route with public EV charge points. I think it’s possible to incorporate EV charge points into street lamps for street side charging. It wouldn’t work were I live as there are no street lamps!

So I think we can agree that certain parts of the UK currently fare better that others in terms of EV charging infrastructure, and it’s that charging infrastructure and how quickly it’s rolled out that’ll be a fairly important factor in a person’s willingness to switch to an EV, especially if it’s not possible for them to have their own EV charging point at home. I’m fortunate as I have a driveway and garage so can have an EV charge point installed when I’m ready to make the switch, but I envisage EV and battery technology will continue to advance over the next few years and there’ll also be a greater choice of EV’s then too. So in the meantime I’ll wait and watch developments with interest.............., and hope the National Grid can handle the extra demand placed on it from EV charging.

[monkeyhanger]

Maybe not everyone will want one, especially if they don’t have ready access to charging facilities. People living in terraced houses or flats / apartments with no off road parking /charging capabilities may well consider an inability to be able to recharge an EV as a barrier to getting one, at least in the short term. So IMHO it won’t just be the really cheap end of the market that may not be open to EV ownership, unless there’s significant investment into the infrastructure needed to support mass EV ownership.

It's a peculiar mindset people have about EVs, that they must be able to charge at home.
Why?
They don't expect to fill up with diesel or petrol at home, so why expect to recharge at home?
Yes it's nice, but it's not essential.
Many EV owners already recharge elsewhere and then go about their business perfectly well.
I can recharge at home, but often simply didn't need to as I recharged wherever I was (town etc)
And as more ICE fuel stations turn into electric stations, it'll become even easier.

People exoect to charge at home so they don't pay through the nose for charging and they don't have to leave their car sat somewhere for hours on end (not necessarily a bad thing if you have charging points at work on out on a long shop - but that's not reality for most - The Metro Centre has a 10000 car parking capacity and 24 EV charging spaces. What's the point of paying over the odds for EV vs ICE and then paying ICE levels of fuelling. Someone in my locality parked up at a charging point in Whitley bay a few weeks ago for an hour's charging and was stunned to see a £120 charge for it. Hopefully it's an error that will get sorted out.

You say anyone that can afford a new car can afford a new EV, so why did you not buy one instead of your GTI that you seem less than enthusiastic for?

Don't forget that most of us aren't living in Scotland with free charging points and 0% finance for EVs.

EVs are nowhere near ready for the masses, and for that reason there'll be a healthy demand in the used market for ICE cars post 2030, unless the government introduces punitive taxing for driving ICE cars. Not seen a decent solution for EV cargo vehicles yet. Vehicles that stay on the road for perhaps 18 hours a day on a 2 shift driver basis. Will those companies have to buy 2 vehicles to replace 1, drive one while the other's charging?

Currently, the wife and I are at the point where we only need 2 cars 10% of the time. I work from home 4 days a week and the day I'm at work, she's usually working from home. I was toying with the idea of getting an ID3 that she'd drive 4 days a week (18 mile round trip if she doesn't go shopping on the way home) and I'd drive 1 days week (68 Mile round trip). We'd get rid of the A4 and the Polo would only really get used on that rare occasion we both need to go to work, or if it's peeing it down. It'd probably do 2k miles a year and the ID3 would do 10k miles a year. I really wouldn't feel good about pitting a fully grown Labrador into a Golf sized boot though.

It would work for us, but I like my A4 and the ID3 has been built like a £20k car, not a £33k.car. The ID3 would be a compromise to save £120.a month on fuel. I think for £120 a month saving (£150 fuelling pm vs an extra £30 on my electric bill if I could get on a 5p/kW tariff) I'd rather keep the A4 and have no compromises.

I don't currently have a smart meter or EV charging point, and our arsehole neighbours frequently block our drive.

[Andy Beats]

.............., and hope the National Grid can handle the extra demand placed on it from EV charging.

There's a national grid engineer on the biggest EV forum and, according to him, the national grid could cope right now even if everyone switched, easily.

[Andy Beats]

You say anyone that can afford a new car can afford a new EV, so why did you not buy one instead of your GTI that you seem less than enthusiastic for?

I've said before, it was a spur of the moment decision when the dealer called and said "you fancy a Gti for £60 a month more and we'll do all the swap over work?"
For the money I'm paying I could easily lease/PCP a very decent EV, no problem at all.
It wouldn't have been much of a stretch to get an ID3, but they were all sold out.
Laziness and covid combined, daft decision on my part, but I'll be getting out of it as quickly as I can and time is thankfully flying past.

[Stuart_Rendall]

.............., and hope the National Grid can handle the extra demand placed on it from EV charging.

There's a national grid engineer on the biggest EV forum and, according to him, the national grid could cope right now even if everyone switched, easily.

I work for an electric vehicle tech company and we have done research that shows the UK has the ability to support all electric vehicle charging but the infrastructure is compromised by local transformer stations as they cannot keep up with domestic areas. Still a lot of work to be done for people in largs estates to charge due to this but apart from that where people can charge at a supermarket or a workplace there will be no problems in 90% of areas.

When people in there masses do all swap to electric vehicles I think it'll be advised heavily to charge at night as demands in domestic areas are lower and teriffs are cheaper. It also allows all the car batteries to essentially become a mega battery for the national grid in the instance of a failure in the grid.

[Andy Beats]

When people in there masses do all swap to electric vehicles I think it'll be advised heavily to charge at night as demands in domestic areas are lower and teriffs are cheaper. It also allows all the car batteries to essentially become a mega battery for the national grid in the instance of a failure in the grid.

It's probably going to occur organically.
Not sure what you mean about the car batteries becoming a mega battery, that suggests the car chargers are a 'two way' thing and the juice can be sucked out of the batteries back into the grid?
If this can happen via a normal EV charger (Podpoint for example), it's news to me.
Not saying you're wrong, I've just genuinely not heard of this.