Arses being kicked at VW

[Andy Beats]

Quite the article, arses being kicked at VW.
https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/ ... 57549?s=21

[monkeyhanger]

I wouldn't touch Tesla with a bargepole - build quality is just awful - poorly applied paint, wonky doors, creaky interiors and exterior door handles that come off in your hands. They're still too expensive also.

One of my mates got a Model 3 just over a year ago as a company car and is counting down the days until he can get rid of it (he's had 3 replacement door handles and a lot of paint correction so far). Performance is great but it's like they employed 80s Lada to build the car.

Most of the big marque plants take around 18 hours to build a car from absolute start (a pile of pressed steel panels) to finish (driving it away) at their sites. Presumably the drivetrain assembly is quicker and easier to fit on an EV than ICE.

[OomStu_ZA]

I agree with monkeyhanger, Telsa build quality should take a (not Nissan) leaf out of VW's build book. That said Tesla is also totally over valued imho:

[iichel]

I wouldn't touch Tesla with a bargepole - build quality is just awful - poorly applied paint, wonky doors, creaky interiors and exterior door handles that come off in your hands. They're still too expensive also.

Sounds about right regarding American build quality

[Andy Beats]

They’ve got more than Tesla to worry about.
Chinese EVs really are so impressive and build quality is improving quickly.
I wouldn’t buy a current MG, they’re so dated to look at, but they’re impressive in terms of running gear/range and the next models look interesting.
Looks like VW were just too late to the party and are struggling to catch up, big time.

[monkeyhanger]

They’ve got more than Tesla to worry about.
Chinese EVs really are so impressive and build quality is improving quickly.
I wouldn’t buy a current MG, they’re so dated to look at, but they’re impressive in terms of running gear/range and the next models look interesting.
Looks like VW were just too late to the party and are struggling to catch up, big time.

Late to the party? The ID3 isn't their first foray into EVs and hybrids. We all know Nissan were pretty much the first to put out a full EV, but the MK1 has incredibly odd styling, was incredibly expensive to buy for what it was and had a derisory range that would've put off all but the most hard core environmentalists.

Tesla have been making EVs for a while now (although you couldn't buy one in the UK until 2019) and their build quality is still poor - nothing to brag about there.

How many people have been buying Teslas in the UK with their own money rather than as a company car? I don't know , but I know 7 people with a Tesla and all of them are company cars.

This link shows July 21 BEV sales. Tesla sales seem to have dropped off a cliff since the grant threshold has dropped and the Polestar/Udi e-Tron gave more choice at the £40k+ bracket. Where's VW in all this? Way out in front - seem to be doing OK up there. Nissan? Way down, the MK2 is begging for an update.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/06/uk ... ecord-low/

[Andy Beats]

Yes, late to the party in terms of a proper EV.
The e-Golf was my pet hate, a bastardised ICE car and that goes for the e-UP as well.
The Golf was abysmal (is it even still for sale?)
Making a loss on every ID3 isn’t good, the more you sell the more money you lose.
That seems to be the crux of the article, that they’re simply taking too long to build each car and it’s costing too much in the process.
I suppose the challenge for them is to make them cheaper and faster while keeping the reputation for solidity.
As I said though, some incredibly interesting EVs coming from Korea and China.
The ioniq5 and Kia6 are very smart and I’ll be looking at them in a couple of years (along with the new Leaf)
The next MG SUV looks nice too.

[monkeyhanger]

Yes, late to the party in terms of a proper EV.
The e-Golf was my pet hate, a bastardised ICE car and that goes for the e-UP as well.
The Golf was abysmal (is it even still for sale?)
Making a loss on every ID3 isn’t good, the more you sell the more money you lose.
That seems to be the crux of the article, that they’re simply taking too long to build each car and it’s costing too much in the process.
I suppose the challenge for them is to make them cheaper and faster while keeping the reputation for solidity.
As I said though, some incredibly interesting EVs coming from Korea and China.
The ioniq5 and Kia6 are very smart and I’ll be looking at them in a couple of years (along with the new Leaf)
The next MG SUV looks nice too.

I don't like the e-Golf either. The Golf is a great car, does everything well, but a bit tramp happy on the torquey cars, except the R (4WD) and the GTI (has an LSD to minimise wheel hop).

The e-Golf has tons of wheel hop and poor traction on a turn with more than a tickle of the throttle - too much torque for the FWD to handle without an LSD. They took a great car and turned it into a dog with the EV drivetrain and the dial based instrumentation. I had one for 4 days as a courtesy car when our ID3 Family was getting its software update. I'm sure it could've been fine with an LSD to tame the tramping, but someone decided not to fit it.

There are plenty of ICE based EVs out there - the Polestar being one of them. I suppose it doesn't really matter if the weight distribution is decent with battery placement and that torque is put down properly.

I don't honestly think that the ID3 has many peers - everything else is moch smaller and marginally cheaper, or much bigger and also much more expensive. The nearest is the Leaf, but as it keeps the big empty bonnet that you could stick a 2.5L lump in, it has a Golf sized cabin rather than a Passat sized cabin. I really don't like any of the SUV looking cars, whether they be ICE or EV. The Ioniq 5 might have the proportions of a medium hatchback, but its a huge car, far bigger than I need.

Are they losing money on the ID3, or just not making the margins they'd like? For what I paid for ours, i'm very pleased with our ID3s, not a squeak or rattle on either car and they handle very well condisering the kerb weight. I'd consider a Kia if they did an ID3 sized car, but I wouldn't touch an MG with a barge pole.

[Andy Beats]

I don't like the e-Golf either. The Golf is a great car, does everything well, but a bit tramp happy on the torquey cars, except the R (4WD) and the GTI (has an LSD to minimise wheel hop).

The e-Golf has tons of wheel hop and poor traction on a turn with more than a tickle of the throttle - too much torque for the FWD to handle without an LSD. They took a great car and turned it into a dog with the EV drivetrain and the dial based instrumentation. I had one for 4 days as a courtesy car when our ID3 Family was getting its software update. I'm sure it could've been fine with an LSD to tame the tramping, but someone decided not to fit it.

There are plenty of ICE based EVs out there - the Polestar being one of them. I suppose it doesn't really matter if the weight distribution is decent with battery placement and that torque is put down properly.

I don't honestly think that the ID3 has many peers - everything else is moch smaller and marginally cheaper, or much bigger and also much more expensive. The nearest is the Leaf, but as it keeps the big empty bonnet that you could stick a 2.5L lump in, it has a Golf sized cabin rather than a Passat sized cabin. I really don't like any of the SUV looking cars, whether they be ICE or EV. The Ioniq 5 might have the proportions of a medium hatchback, but its a huge car, far bigger than I need.

Are they losing money on the ID3, or just not making the margins they'd like? For what I paid for ours, i'm very pleased with our ID3s, not a squeak or rattle on either car and they handle very well condisering the kerb weight. I'd consider a Kia if they did an ID3 sized car, but I wouldn't touch an MG with a barge pole.

The article states they're making a loss on every ID3.
I'm open minded about the MG-type cars from China, although the current MGs are about 10 years out of date in terms of styling.
The MG5 looks like an old Passat estate, the ZS looks like an old Hyundai IX35, but I guess the price reflects that.
I'm not bothered about the badge thing and if they made a good looking one, the tech is right up there with anything else.
Industry talk is that china is moving at a frightening pace and are determined to rival European build quality, quickly.