Control-arm bushing

[2226]

This control-arm rear bushing look healthy?
Normal wear? Time to replace?
Steering isn't what it used to be, but I checked bearings, ball-joints, tie-rods for wear and couldn't see any issues.
But then I noticed these bushings. I know I have a clicking strut mount that needs replacing on driver's (RHD) side, and possibly dogbone too.
I have other issues I want to mention, but thought I'd first check on these bushings.

[RUM4MO]

That control arm rear mounting bush does not look like it is "as good as new", as you can see the material is starting to tear at the voided areas.

This specific control arm mounting bush has been used by VW Group for a very long time, and on some Golfs, Audi TT etc, a non-voided version is fitted. I've thought about replacing these bushes when the first one shows signs of failing, with the non-voided version, so far I've not read of anyone having done that and how it would affect the transmitting of road noise into the passenger cabin. I did replace the voided bushes on my wife's 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V same approx position/function but a different design of suspension, with the SEAT Ibiza Cupra solid versions and that had little or no effect on road noise etc, but made the front end of the car feel a lot better, steering became a lot more direct - and they lasted the remaining 9 years that we ran that car, the first voided bushes failed by the 4 year point in its life.

My wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS SEL ended up destroying one of these bushes within 2 years, so that was replaced under warranty, and so far at 40K miles, both sides are still okay. What/why the original single bush failed at 2 years I can't say as we tend to avoid potholes in the road.

Part numbers for these bushes:- "Original TCA rear bush/mounting was 1J0 407 181, when that one split (NS) VW replaced it with another 1J0 407 181
Lemforder list p/n 2111301 for 1J0 407 181, but also list 357801 as a replacement for 6R0 407 181 B which seems to be the “sports suspension” equivalent part, or the Golf R32/Audi TT part 8N0 407 181B, Lemforder list p/n 2713201 same as Meyle HD 100 407 0073/HD or Febi 26535" taken from notes I made at the time back in 2017.

[2226]

Thank you. Those part number will definitely save me time.

63.5K km on this car now.

I will also thinking of going with the TT full-rubber mounts. This car is all over the place with steering, but I could not figure out why. Might as well look at doing all the bushings and the strut mounts, etc.

I will check with local part store to see if they can get these filled mounts.

I am also considering ordering in the Vibra-technics dogbone mount. The driveline shunt in this car is ridiculous.

Did you have any issues with the front bushing? I was considering poly mounts for the front bushing. I had them in my mk1 golf and they were fine, no real harshness, but they can get squeaky over time.

[RUM4MO]

I've never had any issues with the small front bushes, and it seems that that is the same for most people, they seem to be fit for the job they do - which is not much wrt affecting anything.

I reported too much driveline shunt to our VW dealership, and when it was handed in under warranty for the first time, they replaced (or said they did), the near side track control rear mounting bush along with possibly the near side strut top mounting - due to possible damage, and they did, what I think was VW's first attempt to stop clunking noises, and that was removing the top gearbox mounting and absolutely covered it with what looked a lot like Copperease grease!
That worked perfectly for a few days, no noises at all, then either the ambient temperature dropped slightly or increased slightly (UK "Summer" temperatures!), and then these clunking noises returned!
So, I booked it in again for that same fault, and left a printed out set of notes, which were really just what I had read online about this problem and the fact that VW tend to replace the petrol engined gearbox top mounting for the version used with TDI engines, from memory, Skoda never ever used this really old version of this petrol engined version on this version of engine. So, that means that VW were still using 6Q0 199 555 AR which had been the version they used on normally aspirated petrol engined Polos since late 2001 when the 9N version of Polo was launched. When faced with this issue under new car warranties, at the second customer visit, the recommendation was to remove that version of gearbox mounting and replace it with the TDI equivalent which is 6Q0 199 555 AS - and this is what they did, and the car has been good since then!

Just how much of the info I collected on line was 100% I can't say, but either they read my notes left for them to see on the passenger seat, or there was a lot of truth in it.

By the way, I did make the effort to check which version of gearbox mounting was fitted to that before I initially handed it in for this issue, and again after they had finally sorted out that problem.

I seem to have noted down "from somewhere" that VW did eventually start to use the "AS" version of gearbox mounting round about 2017, so maybe check which version is on your car, from memory, while being slightly difficult to read the part number stamped on the metal part of this mounting, it is do-able using a small mirror and light.

Here is some other thoughts and part numbers from back in 2016 mainly other people's findings:-
"Originally fitted gearbox mounting was 6Q0 199 555 AR, when VW replaced it to try to address clunking when engine load changed they fitted 6Q0 199 555 AS which seems to be a lot firmer but can end up with gearbox noises getting through to the passenger cabin.
An alternative might be 6C0 199 555 B, so what is the order of stiffness, 6Q0 199 555 AR > 6C0 199 555 B > 6Q0 199 555 AS is that is true then maybe buy and fit 6C0 199 555 B in a bid to stop the clunking but not have gearbox noises coming through into passenger cabin, ask VW technical while this car is still under warranty.

Lemforder list p/n 29978 01 for 6Q0 199 555 AS, but so far I have not found their p/n for 6C0 199 555 B – it looks like Lemforder are one of the suppliers of these parts to VW.
Currently, 06/03/22, the parts listing for 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 6MT is now “AS” version, if DSG fitted and also for 1.4TDI now “AT”.
Gearbox Lower Dogs bone mounting:- Lemforder list p/n 36324 01 VW equivalent 6Q0199851AP
LEMFÖRDER Dog-Bone / Pendulum Mount Engine Mount (Rear) 36324 01 VW 6Q0199851AP – if changing to that version, probably a bit stiffer, retain the black folded metal bracket and swop to new alloy part as the AP version bracket is too long for this set up."

Edit:- what I have found with this car is, while sometimes in Summer temperatures and/or in Winter temperatures, there are annoying other suspension noises, every time I've raised it up onto jack stands and carried out maintenance on other areas, the car then runs without any suspension related noises for maybe 8 weeks, which just confirms to me that these lesser noises that I am experiencing are just where "stiction" is present in some of the rubber mounting parts like the strut top mounting and the D mounting rubbers of the ARB, and maybe some damper seals.

[amer6R]

I've ordered OEM ( lemforder ) small ones, and PSB poly bushings ( large ones). I think this will be the best of both worlds, it wont squeak.
I heard people have good experience with Meyle HD large bushings.

[2226]

Thanks. I still need to check with parts store if they have the Meyle or Febi.
Otherwise it'll be the dealership again, but I try to avoid them at all cost.

[2226]

I've never had any issues with the small front bushes, and it seems that that is the same for most people, they seem to be fit for the job they do - which is not much wrt affecting anything.

I reported too much driveline shunt to our VW dealership, and when it was handed in under warranty for the first time, they replaced (or said they did), the near side track control rear mounting bush along with possibly the near side strut top mounting - due to possible damage, and they did, what I think was VW's first attempt to stop clunking noises, and that was removing the top gearbox mounting and absolutely covered it with what looked a lot like Copperease grease!
That worked perfectly for a few days, no noises at all, then either the ambient temperature dropped slightly or increased slightly (UK "Summer" temperatures!), and then these clunking noises returned!
So, I booked it in again for that same fault, and left a printed out set of notes, which were really just what I had read online about this problem and the fact that VW tend to replace the petrol engined gearbox top mounting for the version used with TDI engines, from memory, Skoda never ever used this really old version of this petrol engined version on this version of engine. So, that means that VW were still using 6Q0 199 555 AR which had been the version they used on normally aspirated petrol engined Polos since late 2001 when the 9N version of Polo was launched. When faced with this issue under new car warranties, at the second customer visit, the recommendation was to remove that version of gearbox mounting and replace it with the TDI equivalent which is 6Q0 199 555 AS - and this is what they did, and the car has been good since then!

Just how much of the info I collected on line was 100% I can't say, but either they read my notes left for them to see on the passenger seat, or there was a lot of truth in it.

By the way, I did make the effort to check which version of gearbox mounting was fitted to that before I initially handed it in for this issue, and again after they had finally sorted out that problem.

I seem to have noted down "from somewhere" that VW did eventually start to use the "AS" version of gearbox mounting round about 2017, so maybe check which version is on your car, from memory, while being slightly difficult to read the part number stamped on the metal part of this mounting, it is do-able using a small mirror and light.

Here is some other thoughts and part numbers from back in 2016 mainly other people's findings:-
"Originally fitted gearbox mounting was 6Q0 199 555 AR, when VW replaced it to try to address clunking when engine load changed they fitted 6Q0 199 555 AS which seems to be a lot firmer but can end up with gearbox noises getting through to the passenger cabin.
An alternative might be 6C0 199 555 B, so what is the order of stiffness, 6Q0 199 555 AR > 6C0 199 555 B > 6Q0 199 555 AS is that is true then maybe buy and fit 6C0 199 555 B in a bid to stop the clunking but not have gearbox noises coming through into passenger cabin, ask VW technical while this car is still under warranty.

Lemforder list p/n 29978 01 for 6Q0 199 555 AS, but so far I have not found their p/n for 6C0 199 555 B – it looks like Lemforder are one of the suppliers of these parts to VW.
Currently, 06/03/22, the parts listing for 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 6MT is now “AS” version, if DSG fitted and also for 1.4TDI now “AT”.
Gearbox Lower Dogs bone mounting:- Lemforder list p/n 36324 01 VW equivalent 6Q0199851AP
LEMFÖRDER Dog-Bone / Pendulum Mount Engine Mount (Rear) 36324 01 VW 6Q0199851AP – if changing to that version, probably a bit stiffer, retain the black folded metal bracket and swop to new alloy part as the AP version bracket is too long for this set up."

Edit:- what I have found with this car is, while sometimes in Summer temperatures and/or in Winter temperatures, there are annoying other suspension noises, every time I've raised it up onto jack stands and carried out maintenance on other areas, the car then runs without any suspension related noises for maybe 8 weeks, which just confirms to me that these lesser noises that I am experiencing are just where "stiction" is present in some of the rubber mounting parts like the strut top mounting and the D mounting rubbers of the ARB, and maybe some damper seals.

I also read about using the diesel mount.

I actually rocked the engine by hand yesterday and there's plenty of movement in the upper gearbox mount. No chance of warranty claim here. This warranty was done at something like 55K km.

I'll have a dig later on seeing what the upper mount part number is.

I've got my mind made on getting the Vibratechnics dogbone mount. Worst case I can make money back selling it on if it is too harsh.

Yes, the little noises now and again are annoying. Sometimes I think tension builds up in the rubber mounts and affects driving feel. Jack the car up for a bit, or run it on loose sand, and then things feel better for a while. Used to have that on my old '89 Audi 100/200. But these days the only really annoying sound is the rear brakes creaking when I enter/exit the vehicle with the park brake engaged. Not sure if that just needs cable adjustment.

[RUM4MO]

Yes, the back wheels moving slightly when you get back into it, when I reverse out of the garage in my wife's Polo, and she closes and locks the garage door, she gets a bit annoyed when the car creaks due to me only having the handbrake pulled up "hard" enough to hold the car while I am still in it - so, unfortunately, I must continue doing that!
Once Polos get an electric handbrake, these electric calliper motors will wind the pistons in so tightly that that will not happen - but I suppose Polo will get dropped before that happens.

[2226]

No thanks on the electric hand brake.

It does it more on the one side than the other so I suspect one cable is more stretched.
Not causing any issue at all so I'll adjust them when I get to it.

[RUM4MO]

Yes, I have similar ideas wrt electric handbrakes in general, my 2011 Audi S4 has one, but it also has proper hill hold, so the car gets held for ever or until you want to move it, something I need to remember when I drive the Polo.

Your Polo handbrake cable has an equaliser on the cable, when or if you need to look at the adjuster, the equaliser yoke should be "sitting" in-line with the car and not canted to one side - if the rear brakes are in good condition, ie free to move as intended.

Edit:- I'm not sure when VW Group started having real issues with Polo/Ibiza/Arona/Fabia and some other small cars handbrake cables, but my younger daughter bought a secondhand SEAT Arona, she says that it has a "horrible" handbrake feel/action - and its paperwork proves that SEAT has been charged twice for carrying out corrective action.

I will say that the handbrake on my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS is nowhere as smooth as the one on her 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V, even when it was 13 years/105Kmiles old, VW Group really have cheapened up a lot of the parts they use - both these cars had/have rear disc brakes, as does my younger daughter's Arona, which is just SEAT's version of T-Cross, ie small SUVish thing.

[2226]

The rear calipers are Lucas junk.
Mine were seized up at fairly low mileage.I might have actually cooked a wheel bearing when the caliper seized.

[amer6R]

Don't get confused with Meyle and Meyle HD, those are two different options. Meyle sucks, Meyle HD is good ( they are solid bushings and have 4-5 year warranty).

[2226]

Thanks. I might likely import the Meyle HD. Don't think they can be had here from the usual suspects.

While on this topic.
Will these bushes require a press or will a bush replacement tool work just fine?
Something like this:

https://www.adendorff.co.za/product/mac ... leeve-kit/

or

https://www.adendorff.co.za/product/mac ... ation-set/

These are China specials though, but asking the local workshop to do this will probably cost just as much. I tend to buy the tool in those cases.

[RUM4MO]

One or more of the companies that sell tools for the "home mechanic", sold/sells a small and so cheap kit of bits for that bush and that bush only, typically described as for use on VW Golf, I bought one years ago, "just in case"!

Like this:- "https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252403873957"

[amer6R]

Those tools will work they have OD of 60 mm, and a cup lager than a 60 mm.

Just know measure the length from fender to center of the wheel ( axle) while the car is on the ground.
Then when your torque the bolts, lift the control arm ( you can jack up on the disc) to the same length, and then torque the two M12 bolts. ( As per factory: They say you need new bolts, but many people re-use them - They arent expensive from the dealer)