Clutch problem - cable or something else ?

[937carrera]

The clutch pedal on my silver GTi has become a little heavy and rough (or not smooth) on pedal movement. I put a new clutch in last year which has done less than 7000 miles, (but didn't replace the sleeve) but it has had to be adjusted a number of times and has not started to slip, guven the wrong conditions.

I thought of three possibilities

Pedal box welds failing
Damaged clutch cable
Stiff clutch lever in the box

I disconnected the clutch cable at the gearbox end first, the pedal seemed to move smoothly without any roughness.

Having taken the drivers seat out I then removed the clutch cable and pedal. Here's a photo. I cannot see any cracks in the welds, but am somewhat uncomfortable about the "bloom" around the pedal spindle and adjacent weld, or is this signs of an earlier repair ?



I have measured the clutch cable. It seems to be 1105mm rather than the 1095mm quoted so does seem to have stretched, but I cannot feel any roughness as I slide the sleeve along the cable.

I have tried to move the clutch lever to see if there is any roughness but the pressure is too great to make more than a couple of centimetres of movement.

Any ideas on what the real problem will be. I don't want to just start fitting parts without knowing they are faulty, but equally don't want to start pulling gearboxes out where there is no need.

Help and advice appreciated

[TRiBaL]

I'm pretty sure its not the pedal box as long as you don't hear anything while pressing down the pedal.
I would replace the cable. If nothing changed i would drop the box a.) change the sleeve and most importantly b.) check the clutch lever to the point where its welded with the cylinder that moves the bearing. I had a crack there a few months ago. It felt heavy for a couple thousand km until it broke and the car got towed. Really bad design of this part if you take a close look at it. Mechanic was impressed it hadn't broke earlier.
p.s. given the chance i did a full g.box rebuild.

[alexperkins]

Would agree. Get the sleeve changed. You should be able to depress the clutch arm by hand with firm pressure

[937carrera]

Thanks guys. I got a clutch cable today and am part way through fitting it.

I'll finish off tomorrow and give an update

Cheers

[937carrera]

I fitted the cable today and the pedal feels much better. It's lighter, can be depresed by hand, but it is a little creaky, but not as bad to the feel as it was before (unfortunately I removed the old clutch cable before listening).

If I depress the pedal to the slowly to floor, you can feel just a little jerkiness in the movement as you go down. Once the clutch plate springs go "overcentre" the pedal is smooth for the last inch or so. When releasing the pedal there is again some jerkiness in the release.

The main, and louder noise I can also hear from about 30% to 70% of movement seems to be coming from the engine bay which I think is compression of the diaphragm springs.

It's better, but I don't think it's right.

I have taken a video - not the greatest quality, but it might be helpful http://937carrera.co.uk/polopedal.MP4

[937carrera]

Better video, worse conclusion I fear

http://937carrera.co.uk/VIDEO0010.MP4

I suspect that I have a full house of problems, right at the end of the video I can see the pedal box moving, but suspect that the squeak from the clutch also means the box needs to come out.

Should I do the pedal box first, and is it really 6-8 hours a decent estimate for a first timer.

From reading about the shear bolts are the biggest bugbear - is that correct ?

Further thoughts and comments appreciated

[alexperkins]

Looks like it could be pedal box

I've done a couple. The shear bolts aren't that hard to remove if you have a good sharp chisel to notch them and get them undone

It's around 4 hours work

[937carrera]

Thanks Alex, better psyche myself up for the task.

The car's been laid up for a couple of months so no great rush, but I do want it done & out of the way

[937carrera]

I decided to try and have a go at this today. It's a really fiddly job, made easier in my case by the fact that the shear bolts had been replaced by standard bolts, pretty much confirming to me that the pedal box had been done before.

The trickiest part for me was disengaging the brake rod from the brake pedal. Not owning special tool T10006a, I decided to try and use a pair if circlip pliers to disengage the tabs retaining the ball within the brake pedal. It worked, well sort of, the pedal separated but there was still a crack of plastic so I suppose I'll need a new one.

Here's some photos of the pedal box out of the car.







Time to break out the grinder and welder tomorrow.

Apart from the rust, it doesn't look like this should really be the problem causeing the stiff pedal, but I suppose I'll only find out tomorrow when removing the existing welds. This time the welds will get some paint to finish them off as well.

Any thoughts or advice ?

[alexperkins]

The brake clip always breaks - couple of quid from eBay or the dealer

As for the welding, just make sure you get a good seam on it

I'm still feeling it could well be a worn release bearing sleeve

[937carrera]

Same here- I think I have the full house of issues, cable, pedal box and sleeve.

[937carrera]

A bit more of a photo update as I have now prepared the pedal box ready for replacement, so here's a few photos.

I have compared the suggetsed MK3 golf GTi plastic clip, ( part number 1H0 721 169 A ) against the polo one and realised that the method by which it secures into the brake pedal is different. The result of this is that the Golf part isn't actually secure in the brake pedal and in theory could slip out of place meaning that the ability for the brake pedal to operate against the master cylinder could be lost...... no brakes . I don't think it could happen in practice because the master cylinder is pushing the rod out, but I felt better for having drilled out holes for a couple of small self tappers to retain the plastic clip in the correct place.

Update, the Polo clip seems to have a different part number: 1H2 721 169
So here's the photos

Comparison of the (broken) Polo part against Golf. I thought it would be helpful to show these so that people can see how the part they are trying to remove looks






Next, some photos showing that I have welded around pretty much the entirety of the clutch bracket. My welding skills are still developing but there should be plenty of material to keep it secure









And finally the finshed, painted job showing the self tappers securing the clip

[937carrera]

Well the pedal box is back in, and now I only have one squeaking noise left, so have started taking the box out

[937carrera]

I finished taking the box out last night.

Once it was out I moved the clutch lever and could feel very clearly the roughness in operation, so it is confirmed, I had the full house of clutch problems.

I have bought and fitted a new guide sleeve this morning (lubricated it with copper grease), now I am just waiting for a starter motor bush before I start putting the box back in.

Here's a picture, a couple of the contact faces on the other side are much more polished. Given that it's a VW part number I'm assuming that it's the original fitted in the factory, so the person who fitted the clutch before me didn't change the guide sleeve either. (I did one 10,000 miles ago when the engine was out to remove a piece of broken clutch spring, with the other one probably 15,000 before that - but they also left the piece of broken clutch spring in the bell housing which jammed the flywheel).

I won't make that mistake again.

[alexperkins]

That looks quite worn. Definately overdue a replacement.