FAO 1.0ltr and 1.3ltr engine owners!(single point injection)

Karl_CLCoupe · Post by **Karl_CLCoupe** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:24 pm

From what I can gather its everything including the modified bolts. Regarding the power increase, I think it came to the conclusion it was more sound than power.

Was this thread started for a group by? I seem to remember it being a batch of induction kits.

Anyway, like I said gimme a month or two, and I'm a taker.

Karl.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:33 pm

Nice noise, plus I wouldn't have to arse about getting a new filter every 5000 miles or so and going through the whole painful (literally) affair of getting the Spi airbox off. Just pop the cone off instead and give it a wash.

I'll settle for instructions and bolts, if doug fancies becoming a tool shopper!

EDIT......
Hmmm and theres the matter of this mysterious "orange sensor" - wassat do again? - and what to do with the hot air feed as well!
I think, induction kit in summer, original setup (with a grille "scoop"?) in winter? Only a half hour switcharoo

Gaz GT, that pic you posted wayback of the standard intake extended to the grille with some kind of rectangular ducting sitting behind the grille, what did you use for that? Looks like bits off an old hoover!

Mebbe you can combine the two..... some grille ducting directing/scooping air towards the replacement cone filter on the end of the kit?
After all F1 cars can see a 20hp improvement at 120mph with that sort of thing (...it sez 'ere), so we might get a mighty 1hp extra at full pace. Every little helps!

(as for the carb/inlet manifold bore being small... well... is it much bigger on the GT/G40? the size of the hole just determines the surface area of air that can fit thru - if it's going faster or is mildly compressed... say, by coming in thru a bigger, less restrictive pipe and then being squeezed down, you'll still see a performance gain. faster airflow = better carburation/mixing of injected fuel, too, so low end torque might get a boost. think about the exhaust system - there's parts that are far wider bore than the outlet valves after all, but people still think to make them a bit larger! the stuff coming out of those valves can be pressured at several Bar)

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:35 pm

Tahrey, this is what I have done to mine, and it works really well. You can't see from the picture, but the cold air feed goes from the induction kit, down to the bottom of the grille. I have used a drain pipe overflow typr thingy as an airscoop, that is mounted on the little air vent below the fog light recess. I got the black pipe from GSF for Â£2.40 for about 1.5 metres.

SpikeyG40 · Post by **SpikeyG40** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:39 pm

Tahrey1043 wrote:OK, so which bits do we have to source ourselves, and which bits are we signing up to Doug for?

the bolts themsleves i have to make using a lathe! but i also need the air intake bit to modify them to take the new bolts!

this is all done if u don't want to take ur studs out!

at the min, i am trying to get the sleaves out of a couple of the golf intakes but am having some problems getting them out! must of been luck when i did it the first time! but we have some ideas how to get em out otherwise!

everything else, u can buy urself! i just thought it would be easier if i did the complete kit! but if u want to get the bits urselves, thats fine!

SpikeyG40 · Post by **SpikeyG40** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:41 pm

Karl_CLCoupe wrote:Was this thread started for a group by? I seem to remember it being a batch of induction kits.Karl.

was sort of but not really! i was going to be finding out how many people wanted one n make em accordingly! so in the group buy discounty sorta thing, fraid not!

metz · Post by **metz** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:45 pm

i'm interested in the bolts and airbox if you tell me a price m8

Just can't afford all the kit at the mo.

SpikeyG40 · Post by **SpikeyG40** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:53 pm

well ur talking bout 10-20 squid for the inlet bits off the golf and bout 20 squid for labour/modification/bolts!

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:48 pm

LogIK - sweet

So you get a large volume of moderately cool air from the engine bay, and a good forced-cold feed as well. Out of interest, where's that pipe from the hot air feed go to?
(and what was your engine size again?

)

Doug.... what do you have to do to the air housing to make it accept the bolts? Is it just drilling out the bolt holes slightly to a larger diameter, or is there something more complicated (like making a hole with a thread in it)?

Just as a random thought, would this work for carbed variants? Mk2s and already-modified Mk3s?

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:32 pm

Tahrey, glad you like the setup. Works really well and hardly cost me anything. The induction kit was Â£14 off eBay, the Jetta airbox was Â£5, pipes were Â£2.40 and the other stuff used is unused drainpipes and drainpipe reducers. Works a treat, honestly.

As for the hot air pipe, it actually goes no where. The reasons why I put the pipe on are 1. I had spare pipe to use up 2. It directs any hot air coming from the hot air outlet on the manifold away from the induction kit, which can effect performance.

My engine is the 1043cc AAU SPI. My next mod will be ignition advance and vacuum advance to try and squeeze every last ounce of power out of my 45bhp machine

SpikeyG40 · Post by **SpikeyG40** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:53 am

Tahrey1043 wrote:Doug.... what do you have to do to the air housing to make it accept the bolts? Is it just drilling out the bolt holes slightly to a larger diameter, or is there something more complicated (like making a hole with a thread in it)?

Just as a random thought, would this work for carbed variants? Mk2s and already-modified Mk3s?

the holes in the air housing have to be made bigger to accept the larger bolts, this sounds easy but the holes on the housing have a metal shaft in them, these have to be taking out but when u try and drill them out, they just spin! on mine, we managed to skim the top of the metal sleaves off with a mill, but we're having problems with the current ones as they aren't easy to hold onto the table of the mill

as for fitment to a mk2, i really don't no, as far as i no they are quite similar, but i may have to have a look into that, i'll try and fit it to my old mk2 and let ya guys no

hope this helps

regards
doug

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:43 pm

Think it's definately a case of finding something suitable then sending it to you with a cheque then, D

LogIK.. work that mother! Hehe.. how much power do you think it has now? Taken the cat off? And what do those advances do for you/how they work?

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:44 pm

Tahrey...

Won't have much more power than standard. I can't take the cat off, coz its an L plate

I reckon, with the mods that I have done now, plus the ignition and vacuum advance, plus the AAU chip, I reckon it would be closer to 50BHP. You aint gona get more out of a 1043cc engine, coz the capacity of the engine is the limiting factor.

The ignition advance is really simple to do. You need to set you timing to standard using a timing light (which I am wating for off Dom.) Once you have done this, you simply loosen the dizzy and rotate it by a few degrees in the direction it is spinning - ie advance it. What this does is advances the spark which gives the flame a slightly longer time to burn, which in turn means slighly more power. The advance is usually set by ear, but I'm sure on the MK3, the optimum advance is 7 degrees.
Modern engines don't need this timing advance, because they actually have a negative spark on the exhaust stroke so that any unburnt fuel is burnt off on the final stroke of the engine.
Older cars such as ours, with mechanical distributors, only spark on each of the four points of the distributor cap which is timed for the third stroke of every cylinder.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:37 pm

Thats just to improve the emissions, right? Less unburnt fuel going to the cat.... Can't see how having more combustion on the exhaust stroke would help the power!

Couldnt you just set the timing to 7 degrees advance with the timing light?

(and whats the vacuum advance?)

LogIK · Post by **LogIK** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:23 pm

Yes, you're right in what you say, but the person who told me this said it also improves the power of the engine as there is another small ignition and so timing advance is not needed. However, they could be wrong and therefore I could be wrong

Anyway, as for setting the advance, the best way to do it is to do it by ear, then take the car out for a spin. The optimum advance is just BEFORE you have advanced it too far and "pinking" occurs. This happens because the spark comes way too much before TDC and the fuel/air ignites when the piston is still travelling upwards. If you advance it just before pinking occurs when the engine is under load, you are at the optimum point since it is the maximum you can advance it by.

Not sure exactly why it is best done this way. Maybe it varies slighty between each car

. Not sure at all.

Tahrey1043 · Post by **Tahrey1043** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:47 pm

LogIK wrote:there is another small ignition and so timing advance is not needed.

P'raps it means the Alfa Twin-Spark idea has become more popular? So it's another ignition while it's about 1/2 way thru the down stroke... a little more push and less waste of fuel.

(man, the savings and performance we could get if only all the manufacturers worked together and we got a single engine out at the end with ALL the different enhancements in one place

A non-hybridised 1-litre with 90hp and 100mpg? hehe..)

Anyway, as for setting the advance, the best way to do it is to do it by ear, then take the car out for a spin. The optimum advance is just BEFORE you have advanced it too far and "pinking" occurs.

Oh yes that old chestnut...........
(duhhhhhh til you said about the pinking, i was going... what's this about setting it by ear?! hehe..)

If you advance it just before pinking occurs when the engine is under load, you are at the optimum point since it is the maximum you can advance it by. Not sure exactly why it is best done this way. Maybe it varies slighty between each car . Not sure at all.

Yep it probably has a lot to do with how worn the engine is, carbon build up on the valves etc, as well as various other conditions.. You're making very small and precise alterations to the timing after all (or should be!). The grade of fuel is another factor - which is why you have to run the GT and G40 on a *minimum* of our 95 octane "premium unleaded" (which is better than the "regular" stuff in certain euro countries) to prevent it, and they run nicer on 98 octane. The higher the octane rating, the slower (slightly) the petrol is to combust or even pre-combust without a spark if the engine's too hot. Therefore it's best to use it in higher performance engines that are likely to have more advanced timings and higher running temperatures, and has no benefit (or even a performance harming effect) in more basic units such as a factory-spec 1.0 or 1.3 Spi... which are more suited to the quicker and more volatile nature of the 95-RON (or even the 91-RON stuff which is *their* minimum).

I hope I got all that stuff right

Thinking of that - another effect of you doing this may well be to shift your peak power and torque RPMs higher at the same time as increasing the output... as the pistons can move faster before getting out of the zone where there's the best "push" from the explosion, as the shock-wave covers a larger area (ie starting when the piston is higher up the bore, and ending at the same point)... so you'll have to be changing gear higher, getting it rechipped for a higher rev limiter and a better electronic ignition and fuelling map, so on and so forth wahey..

OK thats it, i gotta open a window, the CO2 is getting to me